I'm having a brain fart today, trying to design a deck for my buddy. We need to use a flush beam for the outside as there isn't enough head room for a standard post and beam without making it feel crowded.
This corner needs to get a post and then I figure two railing posts as that's what's going to look best on the other outside corners. The posts are garapa so surface mount probably isn't an option.
I usually notch and bolt posts but have no problem with using hardware. I just don't see how a hardware connection would work in this situation.
My fallback option is to use a couple more posts and a triple 2x6 beam but it's living space so having a 9' beam span would be a lot nicer than 4.5'.
stack the 4x4 0n the 6x6 and you will be direct bearing, if you want to feel better about it you can put a peg in the 6x6 that also goes into the 4x4. otherwise use a strap from the 6x6 to the 4x4, or a treated 2x4 to the flush side of both and bolt it together w/ 4 1/2 x 7" hex head bolts
The local BO's will want either a notched and through bolted post/beam connection or hardware brackets on both sides of the beam. I don't see how I can use the hardware in the weird corner and I'd have to bolt the railing post through it, but that part can be handled by drilling through the steel. Any ideas?
This is a good example of engineering the structure AFTER it's been designed vs. doing both at the same time.
If I can't get an elegant solution to this PITA, I'm just going to recommend we slip a triple 2x6 beam in there. I've never been a big fan of flush framing but it would be appropriate for this deck. They're spending close to $200k on the exterior for the back yard. Pools, patios, pergolas, the whole shebang.
if you have to roll with what you presented Ethan, then "Thru Locks" would make the install much easier. If you want to get fancy... Do it Gregs' way and plug your hardware :thumbsup: You could even use the corner bay to do some trick joinery (for $extra$ of course)
Does the inside ply of the beam need to have full bearingor can it be kept back to allow the 4x4 to be notched? Or make it a triple and keep the center ply short.
We can't notch our posts for guardrails so I have never had this situation before.
I can't notch the railing posts. I drew them set back from the corners 7.5" and will do it similar to what Greg presented with two balusters in between the posts. It actually solves a problem on another corner where I had two posts that were a little too close together for my liking.
I don't do any exotic wood decks so forgive me if this is naive, but could you just pour piers above grade and set a post anchor in the pier and then just use a continuous 4"x4" garapa posts from top of pier through the inside of the rim joist?
Another option would be to use a nice decorative post sleeve and then have it as an accent color.
Here is a picture of my first idea - bottom left picture
Does it say you cannot notch an 8x8 because that mighy give you 6 f"n inches and that might not be enough. Maybe you should have a 12x12. Come on, what does code call for?
code calls out 200 lb 1/4 deflection at one foot. look at awc spec.
what county do you build in i would like to call them a ask if it is ok to notch a 4x4 or use a 2x4 for a post on a railing for a deck in that county.
I wouldn't notch a 4x4. No reason to really, once we have the fascia and decking overhang on there the decking is almost flushed up to the outside of the post anyway. My buddy likes the look of the offset posts so we're good to go.
4x4, DO NOT NOTCH - there was a study done at va tech that produced some pretty conclusive results also. You can also see the minimum psi is 1100, over 5x more than your 200 you mentioned
There is nowhere in the code says that you cannot notch 2x4 post on the guard railing. What you refering too is a picture based on the study conducted by a 3d party. Composite posts YES, they cannot be notched and that is in manufacturer installation guide.
With that said, if your railing style has top and bottom rails, its not a good idea to notch the post, because the entire span of the railing is dependent on the 2 posts at each end and you will have more flex in it (that doesn't mean it will not meet the 200lb lateral force test, but I just wouldn't do it).
If you only use top rail and fasten your spindles to the top rail and the joist at the bottom, and you using a cap (which acts as strong back) the entire length of the railing span has excellent lateral support and it easily exceed 200lb test, even meet a 500lb test, without relying much on the post itself.
In the old days I remember we would flip a 2x6 diagonally and nail spindles to the 2x6 and the joist without using any posts and you would have a solid railing meeting the code.
Today railings done that way and that is always been an industry standard practice not only on the exterior but interior railings also and notching the posts is very common way of doing things on stairs, landings, decks, etc and it's 100% code compliant. Here is a railing in my house done the same way, notched post and spindles attached to the 2x6 oak handrail and spindles sit on the floor surface on top of a finish nail and that is a solid railing along the entire span.
If you can show it meets the 200# rule from an engineers calc, I'm almost positive I can notch anything I want. But the problem being is there's no testing that I know of, which an engineer will want to see.
I do use thruloks. Tons of them! The issue is that if the post carries through to the top of the beam and gets thruloks, then the two railing posts will need to be bolted through the beam AND the post. It's an odd angle and too far a reach for thruloks, not to mention that I'd have 6 bolts passing through that post.
no 2x4 or a notched 4x4 will pass a design bending of lumber analysts for a 200 ft lb load that is what the code is based on.
very few wood railings built on a wood deck can pass the 1/4 inch deflection at 200 ft lb at the post or at mid span of the railing. that is why it is not inforced to the letter of the code.
if they would treat oak 4x4 post for deck railing we would have a better chance to pass code.:thumbsup:
You can get 4x4 garapa, ipe, massaranduba, teak, etc. pretty easily and any of them would be better than oak. I just don't see how you're going to bend 4x4 PT 1/4" at 1.5' with 200lbs. The deflection isn't usually due to the post but rather the attachment.
For a manufacturer to meet 200 LB test, they have to apply 2.5 times the acceptable load pressure onto the railing which is 500LB for a period of 24 hr and after that the railing should recover not less than 75% of its max deflection after the load is removed. How they do this tests, I'm not sure but if they only do the test on the post itself that should be done according to ASTM requirement I would assume.
If this test conducted on the Field built railing, per IBC requirement, you have to apply 2 times the approved max load (200 LB) which will be 400 LB along the top of the railing at any point for the same amount of time (24hr period) and achieve the same results.
sweet thank E. one of my favorite deck and especially the rails.
That deck is completely modular. framing is set 4ft oc. ipe 4x4 panels. 2-glass floor panels 4x4 over 2 skylights.
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