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GC/carpenter
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If you can show it meets the 200# rule from an engineers calc, I'm almost positive I can notch anything I want. But the problem being is there's no testing that I know of, which an engineer will want to see.
 

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Might be too crude design wise but you can get ones like these skewed and depending on the gauge they support a lot of weight.
 

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Does it say you cannot notch an 8x8 because that mighy give you 6 f"n inches and that might not be enough. Maybe you should have a 12x12. Come on, what does code call for?
code calls out 200 lb 1/4 deflection at one foot. look at awc spec.
what county do you build in i would like to call them a ask if it is ok to notch a 4x4 or use a 2x4 for a post on a railing for a deck in that county.
 

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professional
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to connect the posts to the outside.. why dont you use thru loks....and the like...californiadecks turned me on to those products and they are great
 

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Forgive me if I'm going a little against the grain here. (I'm not trying to high jack your post) a little clarification. Why can you not notch a post?

Can you use a 2x4 and anchor that as your railing post? It will meet the code 200# test here.

If so, why can you not notch a 4x4?

Can you notch a 8x8?

Does the code strictly say no notching in your area?
I was wondering the same thing.
 

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Talking Head
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Discussion Starter #26
to connect the posts to the outside.. why dont you use thru loks....and the like...californiadecks turned me on to those products and they are great
I do use thruloks. Tons of them! The issue is that if the post carries through to the top of the beam and gets thruloks, then the two railing posts will need to be bolted through the beam AND the post. It's an odd angle and too far a reach for thruloks, not to mention that I'd have 6 bolts passing through that post.
 

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I can't notch the railing posts. I drew them set back from the corners 7.5" and will do it similar to what Greg presented with two balusters in between the posts. It actually solves a problem on another corner where I had two posts that were a little too close together for my liking.

does this help. imo i think the extra spindles look busy.
 

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i hate this site. whats the deal. i can never get any picts posted.

e shoot me your eml. i have a few i think you might like and post here if you can.
 

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Does the inside ply of the beam need to have full bearingor can it be kept back to allow the 4x4 to be notched? Or make it a triple and keep the center ply short.

We can't notch our posts for guardrails so I have never had this situation before.

Or a spline or other hidden bracket.
http://www.decksgo.com/titan-post-anchor.html
chit dude thats awesome. and so much faster then all the other bs that goes into securing post.

how did it feel after installed.
 

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General Contractor
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4x4, DO NOT NOTCH - there was a study done at va tech that produced some pretty conclusive results also. You can also see the minimum psi is 1100, over 5x more than your 200 you mentioned
There is nowhere in the code says that you cannot notch 2x4 post on the guard railing. What you refering too is a picture based on the study conducted by a 3d party. Composite posts YES, they cannot be notched and that is in manufacturer installation guide.

With that said, if your railing style has top and bottom rails, its not a good idea to notch the post, because the entire span of the railing is dependent on the 2 posts at each end and you will have more flex in it (that doesn't mean it will not meet the 200lb lateral force test, but I just wouldn't do it).
If you only use top rail and fasten your spindles to the top rail and the joist at the bottom, and you using a cap (which acts as strong back) the entire length of the railing span has excellent lateral support and it easily exceed 200lb test, even meet a 500lb test, without relying much on the post itself.

In the old days I remember we would flip a 2x6 diagonally and nail spindles to the 2x6 and the joist without using any posts and you would have a solid railing meeting the code.

Today railings done that way and that is always been an industry standard practice not only on the exterior but interior railings also and notching the posts is very common way of doing things on stairs, landings, decks, etc and it's 100% code compliant. Here is a railing in my house done the same way, notched post and spindles attached to the 2x6 oak handrail and spindles sit on the floor surface on top of a finish nail and that is a solid railing along the entire span.

Here is an example.
 

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General Contractor
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No that picture is from the awc guide and it doesn't say anything about 2x4s because it pretty clearly states all guard rails shall be minimum 4x4
My apology, that was a mistype, it meant to be a 4x4 post...
 

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no 2x4 or a notched 4x4 will pass a design bending of lumber analysts for a 200 ft lb load that is what the code is based on.
very few wood railings built on a wood deck can pass the 1/4 inch deflection at 200 ft lb at the post or at mid span of the railing. that is why it is not inforced to the letter of the code.
if they would treat oak 4x4 post for deck railing we would have a better chance to pass code.:thumbsup:
 

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no 2x4 or a notched 4x4 will pass a design bending of lumber analysts for a 200 ft lb load that is what the code is based on.
very few wood railings built on a wood deck can pass the 1/4 inch deflection at 200 ft lb at the post or at mid span of the railing. that is why it is not inforced to the letter of the code.
if they would treat oak 4x4 post for deck railing we would have a better chance to pass code.:thumbsup:
Please enlighten us with that code number.

Also where it has your 1/4" deflection claim.
 

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There is nowhere in the code says that you cannot notch 2x4 post on the guard railing. What you refering too is a picture based on the study conducted by a 3d party. Composite posts YES, they cannot be notched and that is in manufacturer installation guide.

With that said, if your railing style has top and bottom rails, its not a good idea to notch the post, because the entire span of the railing is dependent on the 2 posts at each end and you will have more flex in it (that doesn't mean it will not meet the 200lb lateral force test, but I just wouldn't do it).
If you only use top rail and fasten your spindles to the top rail and the joist at the bottom, and you using a cap (which acts as strong back) the entire length of the railing span has excellent lateral support and it easily exceed 200lb test, even meet a 500lb test, without relying much on the post itself.

In the old days I remember we would flip a 2x6 diagonally and nail spindles to the 2x6 and the joist without using any posts and you would have a solid railing meeting the code.

Today railings done that way and that is always been an industry standard practice not only on the exterior but interior railings also and notching the posts is very common way of doing things on stairs, landings, decks, etc and it's 100% code compliant. Here is a railing in my house done the same way, notched post and spindles attached to the 2x6 oak handrail and spindles sit on the floor surface on top of a finish nail and that is a solid railing along the entire span.

Here is an example.
I agree, that can be a strong railing, but that was in the old days before there were any required specs on railings. No doubt it would have to be engineered and they might discount any strength given by the balusters attached directly to the deck.
 

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Talking Head
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Discussion Starter #36
You can get 4x4 garapa, ipe, massaranduba, teak, etc. pretty easily and any of them would be better than oak. I just don't see how you're going to bend 4x4 PT 1/4" at 1.5' with 200lbs. The deflection isn't usually due to the post but rather the attachment.
 

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That Titan post anchor is pretty sweet, never seen one of those before. Why didn't I think of that Idea, I could be rich.
 
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