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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone - I was asked to give an estimate on repainting a kitchen.
This is a brand new house - and the painting contractor was A++! Normally I walk into houses seeing awful jobs - this time I am like - I am going to work hard to duplicate the quality. Anyways the walls are perfect - I think this guy even used a strainer for the paint - it's just soooo clean, even B&M paint
has crap in it - fresh from the paint shop.

So my question is, brand new paint job in eggshell, customer wants a different color. The problem is the color I have to go over is a yellow - like a muralo 'flaxen' yellow. If my memory serves me correctly yellows are hard to cover. I asked a fellow painter, and he said he thought they were hard to cover with, but ok to cover with another paint. What if any are your experiences folks?

The next question - she wants to go over in green, and I know this paint is hard to cover with. Do you think 2 coats would cover? If not - tinted primer coat? This kitchen is huge, and a 3rd coat of paint could make the job very costly. And less likely to get the job.

And how about sanding this paint job? My friend seems to think that sanding won't improve adhesion very much - and since it's in perfect condition, no nick-nacks whatsoever. That I shouldn't bother sanding before applying a new coat of paint. This is eggshell, it has a sheen, and I was trained to dull a surface - especially if has cured for more than a month before putting up new paint. What do you all think? Will 100% acrylics adhere fine to this kind of paint job. Am I a dinosaur for thinking sanding is necessary prep work even if there are no nick-nacks that need being poll-sanded off?

-PlainPainter
 

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In my experience 'eggshell' doesn't have a sheen. As a rule of thumb, I steer towards a semi-gloss for kitchens because the walls are cleaned there more often.
To do the job right, I would set them up for scuffing+3 coats. 1 coat primer+ 2 coats base. Add a provision that if they are happy with the first coat of base, you will stop there.
Yellow over green is not that tough and you might get by with just 2 coats of green but I would prepare for the worst and if you come up under quote, expect more work.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Eggshell paint doesn't have a sheen? It's not as shiny as semi-gloss, but it definitely has a sheen to it. I am actually going over yellow with a green paint. I was thinking if the wall is in perfect shape - maybe a 100% primer would stick great without sanding. I am just wondering if I am being too old fashioned for thinking I should sand the walls down before painting.

Isn't kitchen and bath paint typically in satin finishes? I guess with all the scrubbable matte/flat finishes and ceramic paints - we no longer have to think in these terms anymore. Just paint whatever sheen the customer wants - flat in kitchens if they want it. Just as long as it is one of these new waterborne scrubbable ceramic paints.

-PlainPainter
 

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Eggshell does have a slight sheen, typically a lighter sheen than even satin. If the walls are in excellent condition you dont need to sand it, unless your going back with a flat paint, then you will need to scuff the walls. That "scrubbable" flat aint all its cracked up to be, talk her into a satin.

2 coats of green (depending on the shade) of green should cover the yellow.

If you feel like you have to use a primer, I recommend Kilz 2, tint it a couple shades lighter than what the final will be. This is is excellent for bonding flat over semi gloss so it should work in your situation.

Me...I would tell her Im pricing it for three coats , if after 2 it looks good deduct the 3rd coat from the bid.

Are there cabinants to be painted as well?

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah this info is helpful. Although I am noticing a trend - if the paint is shinier the less prep work is needed? Is this because Semi-gloss paints have more resins in them vs. flat paints that are more pigment? I was just taught to always sand - sanding provides a tooth for mechanical adhesion. But if these resins are great - then perhaps I thought no sanding is necessary.
But flat paints are less resinous - so there is a need to sand if flat paint is to be applied over an enamel finish, right?

Her finish is an eggshell paint, which I thought I should stick with. It could be Satin - I can't tell the difference among different manufacturers. Some companies satin seems to be others' eggshell. Some companies satin and eggshell look alike.

I am not painting her cabinets nor her trim - they moved into this brand new house back in April and I am just in there for a repaint to change the color.
No worries about grease - since nobody does any cooking in this house. It's one of these Better Homes kitchens that nobody actually uses - so no cooking grease on walls.

-PlainPainter
 

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Price them for one light sand and three coats, with the 3rd coat being optional if she is satisfied with the 2nd coat. I would use Sherwin Williams Prep Rite "Pro Block" sealer tinted to 70% of the final color and then the top coat. I would let her select the sheen. Unless it's a hot pink you should get by with a sealer and one coat.
 

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Going over Barbie pink was the worst job that I have ever done. 2 coats primer + 2 coats finish. What is it about pink? That house had dark green walls that were easier to cover.
 

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But flat paints are less resinous - so there is a need to sand if flat paint is to be applied over an enamel finish, right?
Hmmm, makes sense to me, remember, I'm the old timer, to me the flat just seperates when applied to semi gloss, but you may be onto something there. :Thumbs:
 

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Nothing like oil-based Kilz. I used it to cover up purple and red graffiti on a house's interior walls and also to seal smoked lumber. Sucks to use it and you need some seriously good ventilation but the results are fantastic.

Tim
 

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Kilz is fantastic. You can use it just as easlity to cover up crap in forums. Although for some people it will take two coats. :cheesygri maybe even three!
 

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Off subject slightly, I built a home for my brother over this past year and He and his girlfriend wanted dark red paint in couple different areas of the home. I had no experience in dark colors prior to this! 1st mistake thing it should'nt be that tuff to use another color. After all the paint is one coat coverage? Not!! Could'nt have been futher from the truth. The pigments broke down all the cover ablity of the paint. 2nd mistake is dark semi-gloss paint shows every little flaw in the walls. The walls need far more attention proir to dark shades. Besides the finish of the walls the paint pro at the store suggested a mouse gray primer? Although the first room I painted I started with a white primer base. Thought the dark color would cover a lite base easily, could'nt have been more wrong. The paint had the same characteristics as a semi-transparant stain! Two coats may have been enough if Iwould have sprayed rather than cut-in and rolled. Due to the paint being so transparent you could see lap marks easily. I liked the look of it having depth. But even after four coats I still was'nt satisfied with the coverage. It was by far my worst painting experience ever! Not to mention the time and cost.
 
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