[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Hey Guys....

I have a very good friend that will be pouring a very long concrete driveway for their new build residence...( ie, a surface finish with it's consequent maintenance issues probably is not a desirable alternative, unless you know of a surface finish more durable than I know of).

As to exposure characteristics, this is located in Park City Utah.

This is rather a very high-end home.... all cost factors are open to consideration.

What are your professional recommendations and advice, as to both product and/or technique, to achieve as dark and black as possible driveway appearance.????


TIA

Best


Peter


(I'm thinking in terms of a concrete colorant, but open to all ideas/recommendations).

 

[superseal]

Macadam :laughing:

In all seriousness, black is a tough color for exterior concrete - it eventually migrates to dark grey and looks like chit...doesn't take that long to do so either.

Here's and old job I did where the lady insisted the concrete be black...added 20lbs of oxide pigment per yard and it was black as black coming out of the truck. Within weeks, it's was dark grey. She didn't mind however, she just didn't want white (light grey) effect on new concrete.

Color enhancers and sealers would help, but I imagine quite a bit of maintenance for such a long drive which more than likely is to be plowed.

 

[Ninjaframer]

Black Solomon pigment with a black release powder and a stamp finish followed by an acrylic sealer. Guaranteed to stay black with black highlights I'm in southern Utah and have the same element issues down here. Sunroc should will probably have to order the dye but your normal concrete guy (if he's familiar with stamped concrete) should be able to handle that.

 

[brhokel606]

Just remember to let the Concrete Company know of the coloring especially black when placing the order. They throw a chit fit when they get on scene and don't know about it, trust me. I had let dispatch know but they didn't let the driver know.

I'm told that they need to clean right away to make sure it doesn't stay in the chute/barrel and ruin further loads.

I haven't had someone request black, would be very curious how it turns out. Let us know

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Super... NInja... Hokel... Thank ya... for the viable thoughts/ideas/input.

Below are some thoughts/ideas from pro's on another site... I edited out the BS responses.( And yes I'm sure as you expect, on the other site I got the JO "lay asphalt":laughing:)

Just posting for our common knowledge and benefit... and any opinions that you might have in this regard.



"We supplied the black concrete for the steam heated sidewalks around Sears Tower, and as I recall the mix design called for carbon black as the colorant, and the requirements for the sidewalks were what your friend wants, deep black with no variation so a lot of care in mixing and also finishing is required.


IMPO, acid staining in a true black is not easily atainable, and as you noted, it's only topical. It takes several applications to get anywhere near a true "black".

If it were me, I'd use an intregal concrete colorant (mixed into the load" on the entire driveway and use a decent solvent-based color enhancement sealer to brick as much color out as possible. Obviously, the sealer will need to be re-coated every few years to keep the deepest black color.........



We use what ever color our ready-mix supplier is in bed with, and currently, its' Butterfield color. Actually, a pretty darn good company IMO.

As for sealer, you can't go wrong with Euco "Everclear" or "Super Diamond Clear" IMPO


Acid staining, while a true stain, is topical and must be sealed to preserve it...not practical on a long driveway, as sealing adds it's own maintenance issues. Carbon black is not a good dye for concrete, the small size of the particles means that they will wash out of the pores over time. Super iron black or a liquid black like hydro is your best bet, and if money is no object and you want it really black specify white cement. "



(I and my friend know this is a difficult/non-perfect dilemma, but believe me, his home is worth the investigation.)

Thanks again

Best

 

[Ninjaframer]

No surface added stain is going to look good for long in our climate. It has to be a pigment/ dye that's added at the batch plant. I think the black release powder stamped in with a slate top stamp will look bitchin. If this client really is "super high end" than pour a 10' x 10' test pad and see what it looks like. FYI The method I described shouldn't run you more than $5 to $6 a sq ft. That's what it would be down here anyway.

 

[pritch]

Hmmm. Park City. Lots of salt. If he don't go before the 24th of July, it will be to late. Driveways need 90 days cure at least before the road salt starts dripping off the cars and onto the concrete. I've seen it time after time. But that's fine, I've been replacing driveways in Park City for 30 years and one thing I've learned: The rich never learn. They keep waiting until October and wondering why the top comes off.:laughing:

We got a nice black on some tilt panels we recently did in Salt Lake. I don't know the pigment off the top of my head, but I could find out easy enough. That was with Geneva ready mix, and they have a plant in PC.

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Ninja... Pritch... Thanks... Good points.... and darn local too...:thumbsup:

John is shooting for a July1 CO... but likely expects a mid-July.

I know he's scraped right now.... forgot to ask him this morning if he is bedded yet.... don;t know if he has concrete contracted yet... but he's not wasting any time.

Thanks again

Best

 

[cdkyle]

If owner wants black, why not just put down some high quality asphalt paving. They can stamp/embed the asphalt now as well. And of course, it will be black. I just don't think a black colored concrete will retain its color and darkness.

 

[NYCB]

My best solution would be black color from the plant (if they offer it, since their batching will be the most consistant) then a black stain over top and a good sealing.

It will be a pain in the ass, and it will be expensive, but it can be done.

 

[tgeb]

We did a small project a while ago and used the darkest color the plant could make, it turned out pretty good. I'm working the same site soon and will get a photo of the slab.
We did it in 2008 and it still looks good.

Cost us more for the colorant than it did for the concrete....

 

[pritch]

Ninja... Pritch... Thanks... Good points.... and darn local too...:thumbsup:

John is shooting for a July1 CO... but likely expects a mid-July.

I know he's scraped right now.... forgot to ask him this morning if he is bedded yet.... don;t know if he has concrete contracted yet... but he's not wasting any time.

Thanks again

Best

I'd offer to give him a price, but I'm currently not licensed and PC is super strict about that kind of thing. And I went to high school with their chief building inspector. Worked for him when he was contracting. Small towns suck sometimes:laughing:

That pigment we used was 4% onyx. I didn't get the brand, but it's whatever Geneva sells. Your guy will know Geneva (or Sunroc down in your neck of the woods, Ninja.)

Just curious-is the Park City Mountain Resort/Vail war getting any press out in Colorado? It's huge here.

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Pritch/ and everybody..... John is reading and paying close attention to your thoughts/ideas/opinions.

Thank you all for theprofessional responses and not the sometimes " trivia/BS" that infiltrates once in awhile.

But Pritch..... I'm interested in your reference to the Vail/PC issue/competition. I honestly have not heard anything.

I don't want to derail the thread, but am most interested in your reference. Is Vail Res trying to buy PC?????

TIA

Best

 

[tgeb]

This is a pic of the slab I referred to earlier, we did the wall on the right also, it did not take the color as well as the slab did.

We put this down in early 2008.