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Tell them it is too much trouble to get work release for a half day for the sparky, arrange a ride for the license revoked plumber, and it’s too close to a school for the framer on probation.


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GC/carpenter
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My subs employees direct all questions to me. It's an unspoken rule.


Mike.
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On many occasions I've had clients request that we use a particular sub, or tell me that they will be hiring a particular sub because they work with them all the time. I have no issue with either of these arrangements as long as their chosen sub is not a total knucklehead, and so long as we decide this up front before I waste another subs time and money estimating the project.
 

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...after changing the plans and contract a few times...
...There has been plenty of red flags of pita factor...
...I questioned her if she doesn’t have trust and confidence in me...
...she is just worried about quality control...
Clear trust issues. If it is as you say, and you're not hard up for work right now, then RUN!!!
I completely understand homeowners being weirded out about a bunch of people they don't know coming into their home and messing with it, but there is the extreme of this where the client whips themselves into a frenzy of second guessing and over analyzing the most unimportant details until they get so freaked out by the whole thing that they sabotage the whole project.
I had one of these clients a few years ago and it turned into such a ****show that it still pisses me off to even drive through that neighborhood now. Save yourself the grief.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Clear trust issues. If it is as you say, and you're not hard up for work right now, then RUN!!!

I completely understand homeowners being weirded out about a bunch of people they don't know coming into their home and messing with it, but there is the extreme of this where the client whips themselves into a frenzy of second guessing and over analyzing the most unimportant details until they get so freaked out by the whole thing that they sabotage the whole project.

I had one of these clients a few years ago and it turned into such a ****show that it still pisses me off to even drive through that neighborhood now. Save yourself the grief.


It definitely is a truss issue, at this point I'm doing the design (and getting paid for it), I don't need the job as much as they need me... this is a small town area, they had some good referrals but hadn't seen any of my work.

They had bought there house as a shell 30 or 40 years ago and had people finish the interior, (the house was lost in forest fire last summer so it is also insurance claim) so therefore I wrote a very detailed contract with quite a few pages, and I think it overwhelmed her, now she wants more product info... she was hoping some stuff like window placement could be decided on the field, so I had to inform her the more info we have now the better the project will go... she also said they did not have any plans then, and she don't understand why we would now

So anyway I have decided I will make the changes on the plans and the contract, and then I will have to set her straight on how things work around here!!!


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I know as a sub the last thing I want to be doing is scheduling an interview with the GC's POTENTIAL client, then finding the time to go to the interview.......ugh, what a waste of valuable time.
 

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Another reason I have these clauses in my contract:

Client recognizes and agrees that SEC/SSAS is the contractor and project manager, unless otherwise stated in writing.

Client recognizes and agrees that all: construction, installation, service, programming, and testing is to be under the sole responsibility and direction of SEC/SSAS, unless otherwise stated in writing.

Any actions by the Client, including but not limited to attempts at management, excessive communications with SEC/SSAS personnel, modification and/or alteration of the scope of work, changes to work site access, and any other action that results in additional time, labor and materials expense by SEC/SSAS will constitute a breach of this agreement, and, will result in additional time, labor and materials expense charges to the Client at standard retail rates.
 

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Hair Splitter
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So I have been working with a client on a new house, some of the things she wants came across as weird, but that’s beside the point, after changing the plans and contract a few times, she now wants to meet all the subs... yes before the contract is sign...

There has been plenty of red flags of pita factor, I have wondered if I was the right contractor for her, so when she asked if she could meet my subs, I questioned her if she doesn’t have trust and confidence in me, and I explained to her that I will not release sub info prior to a signed contract, I explained to her that I take full responsibility to anything my subs do... if she does have a problem with anyone I bring on, I will try to resolve any issues she may have,

As far as after a signed contract I have no problem giving them my subs list, but as a sub I have never received a call from a generals client, and I never had a request like that, she’s obviously not concerned with the costs and trying to steal subs, she is just worried about quality control...

Have any of you guys run into this kind of situation? What would your responses be?


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Never run into it. They do ask about them, but never to meet them before signing the contract. I will give them their name and present certs of insurance, but nothing more.

It's a trust thing. If they don't trust me and my selection of subs then they can pound sand and find another contractor.
 

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I think you are taking the correct approach. Your subs are none of their business until you have a signed deal.

If you do get the deal, I would have a private meeting with subs beforehand and explain to each that they are working for you on this job, and to keep client interaction to a minimum. No side deals or agreements with the client, everything goes through you.

Doesn't happen very often, but every now and then you run into a dishonest client who tries to capitalize on all your work and hire subs direct.
This. Exactly right, you've got no obligation to the client, they're paying for the work, not the individual subs. You wouldn't ask to meet everyone who works for/with a baker if you were ordering a cake, would you?

Also the issue of hiring subs post quoting is a very good point. can happen a lot with tenders - clients will put a project out to tender, purely as an exercise in gathering ideas. Then they tell everyone who tendered that they went with another option, using the ideas they liked the most with a cheaper provider.
 

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John the Builder
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To be fair, yes, a potential client can ask.

Reality is, who we use are "subject to change without notice".

FWIW, I'm going to always know who is on my job site. Now, whether I get to do a "meet & greet" beforehand is a different matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Another thought and situation I have... is there something like stealing a sub from your client?

I did some work for a guy last fall... after he had been trying to get me to work for him for over a year, I finally told him I had a little time, (I really didn’t want to, because he’s an A**) after coming to a deal to finish a project someone else started... I gave in... turns out his plumber is a great guy, and I exchanged numbers and will probably use him if I need.

Fast forward to now, I just bid on a bathroom remodel (plumbing included) this plumber is familiar with the place, (the place is ranch with multiple cabins) I know for a fact, they sign the contract, I bring his plumber on Mr A hole will say how much are you making off my plumber! I know he can’t do anything at that point, but technically I stool his plumber... am I right?


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Another thought and situation I have... is there something like stealing a sub from your client?

I did some work for a guy last fall... after he had been trying to get me to work for him for over a year, I finally told him I had a little time, (I really didn’t want to, because he’s an A**) after coming to a deal to finish a project someone else started... I gave in... turns out his plumber is a great guy, and I exchanged numbers and will probably use him if I need.

Fast forward to now, I just bid on a bathroom remodel (plumbing included) this plumber is familiar with the place, (the place is ranch with multiple cabins) I know for a fact, they sign the contract, I bring his plumber on Mr A hole will say how much are you making off my plumber! I know he can’t do anything at that point, but technically I stool his plumber... am I right?


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I dunno, I don't reckon that's stealing is it? Like he might ethically have an issue with it, but ultimately, it's networking surely?

Yeah you may have met the plumber while he was working for this guy, but this guy doesn't haven exclusivity contract, the plumber can work for whoever he wants - just because you met the guy while he was on someone else's time/project doesn't mean you can't employ him at a later date?
 
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