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Chimney Cap & Repointing Report

13078 Views 40 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  fjn
The chimney with lime mortar you gentlemen were so kind to advise me
on has been repointed with FJN's 1:2:8 mix. It has been in the high 80s to low 90s here with brilliant sun, so I am wetting it often.

Let me pause here to give you all a kind "Bravo!" for your useful insights and the kindness exhibited on the prior thread.

Some of the concave joints exhibit a bit of "alligatoring" in places, although it isn't widespread.

Two things stick in my mind.
One, there is a brick that was replaced on the chimney shoulder nearest the wall which is out of whack with the downward diagonal plane set by the rest of the bricks just enough to stand out visually.
I should have caught that in the process but I didn't.

Perhaps more significantly, the crown the mason fabricated out of cement and sand is now showing some difficulties 4 days after completion. The top would have been better had it been less flat. On the sides, the cap does have a taper out to the edge of the top row of corbelled brick. Without freeze-thaw problems here, I don't know that this presents a concern for face spalling. You may advise me on that. NOTE CORRECTION: The top row of corbelled brick is bordered by the cement cap on the top and a run of mortar on the bottom. The bottom row of corbelled brick is overlaid by a line of mortar on top and overhands into the air on the bottom.

Perhaps more of moment (or not), the crown shows evidence of cracking along the Eastern sunrise side and elsewhere. Exposure to heat and the fireball have done it no good early on. A few cracks have opened up at this stage to about 1/64" and when the crown is wet, a dark spiderweb of lines seems to predict more cracks may be coming.

Until the 28 day cure period is done, I'm not doing anything except keeping the structure wet. I've gone from misting it more frequently to about every 3 hours in daylight.

The question is whether this crown cracking from shrinkage is likely to pose a jeopardy at some point and, if so, how much cracking would that mean and what would be my response?

I'm reluctant to bang on the crown given some of the top rows of brick depend on the tuck pointing for stability. But if you counsel I might (after 28 days of cure) think on that and casting a cap with reinforcing mesh and fiberglass strands that extends 2" out from the chimney, that may be something within my attempting.

Other courses that I've found explained would be buying a stainless/galvanized cap that fits over the crown, has an outer drip lip and provides a roofed and enmeshed central structure to embrace for any future addition of a flexible flue liner; not cheap. People are pretty positive about some of the dedicated siloxane and other chimney sealers dealing with minor cracking. That the minimal quantity of the pricey chimney-specific compounds would coat every chimney on the block when I only have one seems ironic or savvy marketing.

Anyway, as always, I appreciate your time and thoughts. You seem like an island of right guys in the wild Internet frontier.
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As far as the curing of the cap / crown goes,I tend to leave the forms on for as long as possible,minimum 4 days. I wrap the top with heavy plastic (cut hole to accommodate active flues) and staple plastic to form sides. Reason being there is no need for constant wetting,matter of fact,I read somewhere that on concrete flat work the periodic wetting and drying cycle sets up a particular surface tension that increases possibility of crazing ,which you are experiencing.

Another option (I use on flat work) is curing compound,it is a clear liquid that forms a microscopic film that holds the water in.On flat work it does wear of quickly with foot traffic / sweeping,weather etc.


I think the reason is more effective on brick masonry is because the brick absorbs the water and slowly releases it to the mortar,unlike fresh concrete.



I have never used this type of product,although several CT members have discussed it on this forum.
http://www.amazon.com/Chimney-Saver...TF8&qid=1377875492&sr=8-2&keywords=crown+seal
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FJN:

I guess I'll back off on wetting the crown until I get a better fix on continuing or curtailing any kind of misting schedule for either the crown and the mortar from you folks. It has, after all, been six days since the chimney was done.

When reality and time show the nature and finished extent of the crown cracking, I'll report back with details and ears ready for your remedial suggestions. With your observation that others attribute this crazing to "surface
tension" maybe we can hope the damage is superficial.

If you advise a more durable repair with cement compounds at the time, I don"t mind the work. What I've read about "CrownCoat" around the net is good. It may be a useful option. The comments seen on the product seem to conclude it is a good 10-15 year fix in many applications.

How long do you think it will be before the crown cracking will develop to a stage where
an assessment of my next steps can be made?

Here are some articles I found around the web which may be of greater interest to you:

http://www.jlconline.com/masonry-construction/replacing-a-leaking-chimney-cap.aspx


http://www.masonryconstruction.com/Images/How%20to%20Construct%20a%20Chimney%20Crown_tcm68-1375172.pdf
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Did you use concrete sand, fiber and acrylic for the crown?

Lick'em and stick'em crowns need all the help they can get. I normally fortify the chit out them if I'm not pouring a crown or using a stainless chase cover.

Cracked crowns is the number one reason chimney's fail from the top down.
Did you use concrete sand, fiber and acrylic for the crown?

Lick'em and stick'em crowns need all the help they can get. I normally fortify the chit out them if I'm not pouring a crown or using a stainless chase cover.

Cracked crowns is the number one reason chimney's fail from the top down.

As reflected in the previous thread on mortar, my concentration was on
choosing the optimal formulation there. I left the crown composition to the claimed familiarity of the mason. It was just Type II cement and some sand.

Belatedly, the consensus of what seems the smarter drift on the web
supports cement/sand fiberglass reinforcement, reinforcing mesh and possible other additives like acrylic. What I have is, however, what I have. We will have to see how problems manifest but if there are good
approaches for reliable mending short of a rebuild when they do show up, that would be nice. If a rebuild gets on the menu, I'm happy to follow directions with the knowledge that a bunch of pounding on the crown wouldn't help the new mortar joints on the dicey part of the chimney above the roof.
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BTW...stainless caps are well within reason from a cost perspective...These two I ordered custom, the larger one $300, smaller one $200.00

I ain't pouring a concrete cap that cheap i'm telling ya!

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Before I hit the road, here is what I can recall on dimensions at the chimney top.

A stainless cap about 36.75" x 28.5" with a down skirt about 10" would fit over
the top and clear the two corbelled rows of bricks under the crown. If that measurement
should include some specific stand-off spaces in places, please let me know.

A roofed and mesh enclosed central structure that might later accommodate a flexible
flue would a good concept to deal with the 9"x18" chimney opening that currently doesn't have any flue.

Would I need to describe anything like the side bevel on the crown? How? What is the
method of attachment? I know there are local fabricators and sources online. Any thoughts
there on technical considerations or cost?

My location gets little rain. Winds can be strong a few days a year though. Fortunately, the ocean breeze
travels several miles before it hits here. Does that make galvanized material enter the discussion?
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Galvanized should never enter the picture when it comes to chimneys :laughing: My opinion anyway.

In terms of mounting, I usually screw two sides using stainless #14 x 2",

In masonry you can use tapcons or other fasteners... Many choices really.

A 10" skirt?...sounds hugmongous :eek:

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As to the skirt,if it just runs past the crown thickness and the top of the two rows of corbelled bricks, it
could be around 7". Is that fine as long as it stands off a certain distance from the
brick face such that it doesn't drip on the second, lower corbelled row?
I rarely do concrete caps or crowns, I usually install a steel cap. I've seen so much more damage to chimneys that have concrete caps due to cracking. generally speaking the chimneys that i see with sheet metal caps that are damaged, aren't damaged from the cap but from bad roof flashing or from a lack of void between the flue liner and the chimney. This is only if the cap has a drip/kickout, a sheet metal cap without one is almost useless
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Some good info. in those two publications,especially in Masonry Construction. I really lamented when they ceased publication I believe somewhere in Jan.-Feb.2011. I had been a subscriber since their inception in April '88. In my opinion it was one of the best monthly publications in the field. They have posted some of their articles in their online archives as you found out,alas and a lack not all or many have been placed on line.
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I own my mistake in not pursuing the concrete crown vs. metal case and cap issue before the concrete cap was installed in faith on the contractor's assurance. Outside of the fact that the crazing evident when wet doesn't predict longevity of the concrete unit, there is no bond break where the concrete slopes to the edge of the top course of bricks to deal with differential expansion. The top row of corbelled bricks is set between the concrete crown and a line of mortar below.

Add to this that putting a heavy weight at the end of the unsupported stack above the chimney may make that stack more vulnerable to cracking when shaking with our tremors.

Would you simply cover it with a stainless cap as is? Might cutting into the 4" thick cap to start its taper from the mouth of the chimney and thinning it be an option in combination with a finishing coat of fiber-reinforced material? If so, when would be the time to do this?

More important than remorse are recovery options now.
My questions are apologetically ignorant here in faith that your intelligent experience will kindly deal with that. What would you do in this situation?

As a footnote, I priced a stainless chase and cap combination much like the one featured here

https://www.chimneysupply.com/docs/...less-outside-mount-chimney-cap-basic-lid.htm#

for the chimney as it stands, the price was real close to $550 plus shipping.

I always appreciate your help.
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The guys I deal with, Olympia chimney, recently purchased the white caps brand so try dealing directly with them. They also do custom in their shop and the prices are hard to beat.

http://www.olympiachimney.com/

Is there pics of this chimney of yours? You've got options i'm sure.
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I got custom copper caps that weren't $550 ($500 each but still a 10% difference and copper sure is more attractive than stainless)

Aluminum caps are very inexpensive, most of the ones I get cost about $100 and by the time I order one and drive to pick it up it's ready. Aluminum reacts with mortar before it's cured but after it has no effect. Also since it's painted there is anther layer of protection. I see tons of aluminum caps that are over 30 years old and still doing their job. Just don't get the tissue paper thin aluminum that fascia is made from
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Pictures of Chimney

I feel like a Neaderthal discovering a comb and thinking it is a nuclear reactor. That analogy applies however you like it to my first attempt at posting pictures online.

The pictures should speak for themselves. Pictures of the crown crazing were taken when it was wetted for that purpose. All other pictures were taken without wetting.

If there is a better way to integrate pictures with a posting, please educate me. I did look around the site for more sophisticated guidance and found none.

The first four pictures show the crown. The fifth shows the broadest face of the chimney. The sixth and last shows one of the bricks
in the shaded, Northern shoulder of the brick that may be developing a hairline crack on top.

I'll post the remaining pictures next.

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These are the remaining photos taken. the first shows a side view of the stack. The second a crack opening on the chimney shoulder/brick mortar interface and the third another view of the stack.

If there is some trick to make these pictures expand to their original quality and size, I'd be grateful for the tip.

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oh boy. no flue liner, and the chimney doesn't extend past the cap The good news is you are in S cali and will probably never have a freeze thaw cycle
Looking at your other pics, that really looks like a type S 2:1:8 rather than a type o 1:2:8. Hopefully the mason understood what you wanted
Looking at your other pics, that really looks like a type S 2:1:8 rather than a type o 1:2:8. Hopefully the mason understood what you wanted



I had the same thought,you said it first.
The mason exactly understood the 1:2:8 ratio wanted for type O. Although I was there during the work, I didn't account for the volume measures of materials mixed.

Could your first impression of the material as S be accurate? Nothing in the way of human perversity surprises me; saddens me is something different, my friends. Anyway, whatever is there makes for a reality that has to handled as best as efforts you may prescribe to me can.

The cracking which occurs along the top of the shoulder at the interface of the bricks and the wide, sloping mortar band only shows on the shaded Northern shoulder. If there is something I should do now or at a measured point in any future growth of those cracks, please tell me.

If you want any other pictures, I'm ready. Should someone be able to clearly tell me how to post them so they can be expanded to better resolution, I'll do that.

Any input on dealing with the concrete crown or other problem you may identify?

I wish that one of you had been within reach of my check for the work in spite of the far-flung distances you are from me and my mother's chimney.

One thing I sense about you is a quality shared with me: we like to do a good job. Anything further you can do in the way of advice, directives and tips to help me accomplish the best result possible here is very much appreciated.
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