[Guest]

Ah well, "once more into the fray." At 68 years old yet and thanks to Certainteed for the opportunity to raise the the B/P. My roof looks as if it has been strafed by a ME-109. Its was new in 1991 and put on by a reputable contractor who builds houses in the area. Many homeowners in our enclave have Horizon shingles and all are in need of replacement. One owner got a new roof from Cert. but it was a marathon of endless calling and complaining. He also had to sign a non-disclosure. So I await the packet from Cert but I'm not optimistic as to outcome after reading these threads.
Failure to honor warranties is a disgrace and is the albatross of American business. The stench must be awful. One candid person agreed with the statement that, "warranties are merely a marketing device."

 

[Grumpy]

Certianteed is having quite the problem with their "shangles" (Horizons aren't technically shingles). Rumor has it of a class action law suit.

Warranties ARE meerly a marketing device. No asphalt roof lasts past 20 years. Well technically they "will" last but won't look pretty. This is how the manufacturers know they can give 50 year warranties. The average asphalt roof lasts 15 years, and the average asphalt/fiberglass roof lasts 17.

 

[Guest]

Ah well, "once more into the fray." At 68 years old yet and thanks to Certainteed for the opportunity to raise the the B/P. My roof looks as if it has been strafed by a ME-109. Its was new in 1991 and put on by a reputable contractor who builds houses in the area. Many homeowners in our enclave have Horizon shingles and all are in need of replacement. One owner got a new roof from Cert. but it was a marathon of endless calling and complaining. He also had to sign a non-disclosure. So I await the packet from Cert but I'm not optimistic as to outcome after reading these threads.
Failure to honor warranties is a disgrace and is the albatross of American business. The stench must be awful. One candid person agreed with the statement that, "warranties are merely a marketing device."

The French have no concept of loyalty or support. Can you expect more from a French-owned company?

 

[Nathan]

Moving from Remodeling Picture Post forum to Roofing forum...

thx

 

[dougger222]

What area are you in? I've done several defective Horizon shangle roofs and have three contracts waiting signatures at the moment. You will have to contact a lumber yard that stocks Certainteed products and get a form to fill out for Certainteed. At a minumal Certainteed will buy the new shingle more than likely Landmark 30's and pay some for age. Your roof is half it's age they should split the bill with you.

Grumpy, I've been on asphalt roofs that were over 20 years old and had to tell the homeowner they can wait a couple more years for replacement. Just did a townhome built in 84 with the metric shingles and only the very sunny sides were starting to show age. I could see an Owen Corning ashpalt shingle last 15 years but not the Sealdon 25's.

 

[Grumpy]

Douger based on reports I have read and my personal experience, roofs in the Chicago metro area don't usually last 20 years. This is an average...

My father put 20 year shingles on a front porch of our house that he built. Oh he nursed those shingles well past 20 years. He used the silver coatings on shingles. After 15 years he coated the roof every 3 years. It looked god-awful.

 

[dougger222]

Grumpy, I would say Chicago and Minneapolis/St. Paul have somewhat similar seasons with your area having perhaps slightly warmer summers and my area cooler winters. There have been some shingles over the years though that can last a good while.

You must remember that many shingle manufactures 20 years ago made shingles with a 15 year warranty and not the 20-25 year warranty you see every shingle manufacturer with now.

My father said he's installed many roofs with a 15 year warranty over the years, will they last 20 years? Doubt it!

 

[Grumpy]

I really think that the fact of the matter is manufacturer warranties are a marketing trick.

Heck I know our warranty is a marketing trick, to a point. We WILL honor our warranty for the stated period of time. We also give a long term warranty. When I say long term I mean we double the local average on repalcements. 10 years labor on a roof replacement. We do this because we know if we do the work right, it should last ten years. I've been on many roofs that were brand new where the home owners forgot who did the roof so didn't know who to contact for the warranty. I've answered the phone for an ESTIMATE we did years ago but never landed the sale and they thought we were the roofers because they managed to dig up our estimate and they needed a repair. Houses are sold and paperwork lost. There are many variables that cause warranties to be forgotten.

 

[LNSTRIC]

Certianteed is having quite the problem with their "shangles" (Horizons aren't technically shingles). Rumor has it of a class action law suit.

Warranties ARE meerly a marketing device. No asphalt roof lasts past 20 years. Well technically they "will" last but won't look pretty. This is how the manufacturers know they can give 50 year warranties. The average asphalt roof lasts 15 years, and the average asphalt/fiberglass roof lasts 17.

I HAVE READ MANY OF THE COMPLAINTS RE CERTIANTEED HORIZON
SHINGLES. SOME OF THE COMENTS REFERED TO CLASS ACTION SUITS. HAS THERE BEEN ANYMORE ACTIVITY IN THAT DIRECTION? I AM AN IOWAN WITH A HORIZON PROBLEM. I'M AWAITING THE CONTRACTOR TO REMOVE SOME SHINGLES TO SEND TO CERTAINTEED. WOULD APPRECIATE HEARING FROM YOU.

 

[MJW]

I have also done a few. The shingles are just plain garbage. On the certainteed website, you can print the pages for the claim and send the shingles in. They do pay.

I have seen shingles last many years, but I have to agree they don't look as nice after even 7 years, let alone 20. Some winters and/or summers can be bad enough to take 5 years off the shingles.

Most of the horizon roofs around I have seen have been replaced from the hail storms. Sadly, some are being replaced by Timberlines.

 

[minnesotaroofin]

Kinda funny how people bash GAF - And prefer Certainteed products. I used Certainteed for about 3 years their claims process is terrible takes them a year or better sometimes to settle a claim. They have fought and are still fighting numerous class action lawsuits wheras Gaf has had only one to my knowladge and fessed up right away and paid the piper.

I do think Certainteed has some good products but think they need to stand behind their warranties a little better after all it is their product.

 

[minnesotaroofin]

Try to Google Lawsuits Shingles this is what i tell my homeowners if they want to use certainteed products.

 

[RidgeWalker]

Many roofs don't last as long as they should becuase of ventilation problems.

 

[MJW]

Kinda funny how people bash GAF - And prefer Certainteed products.

It's easy, they are a better shingle. Landmarks are better than Timberlines. Hard to argue that. As for 3 tabs, GAF has had the worst line until the certainteed XT's. They are almost as bad.


Give it time. They will have their hands full with claims on the timberlines. We have done some already.

Cetainteed makes their share of bad shingles. I'll agree to that. On the other hand, I haven't seen a GAF shingle that is really worth the money.

 

[minnesotaroofin]

i do not see how you can say landmarks are better - maybee same quality - if you compared the 2 - 30 year products you would find gaf shingles are actually thicker and have more of a fiberglass to asphalt mixture than landmarks.

As far as 3 - tabs go the 25 year sealdon was the worst other than a globe 3 - tab. both these would be lucky to go 15 years. I have been using 3-tab sovereigns for 18 years. Except for a few batches in the 90's all are still performing well. i think i have had 2 or 3 callback warranty claims with GAF. have easily been on a dozen or more certainteed defects and i use GAF 90% of the time.

If you strictly use landmarks that is good it is a good shingle but if you did have a problem good luck working it out with certainteed there warranty protection sucks. they put you off for years. i sent in a claim for a homeowner on the horizon shingles over a year ago took them six months to come back and offer $350.00 now they are up to $650.00 i think if i push for another year or so i may get $750.00 on a 9 year old roof.

 

[MJW]

More fiberglass doesn't mean bull. I have compared the shingles as I use both. The Landmarks are still thicker. Just setting the shingle, you can notice that.
As for 3 tab GAF's they do not stay on unless there is no wind whatsoever. Lightest shingle made, and they don't last 20 years.

Have had claims with both shingle manufacturers. Both were slow, but Certainteed paid the full bill a few times. GAF hasn't yet. I think the warranties on any of them is not good past 5 years. All of them are getting cheaper made as time goes on. Used Elk today and they seem real strong, but a little dry. I'm not quite sure of them yet. Haven't recommended Timberlines to anyone though. The ones we do, pick them because of the color combinations they have.

Maybe that's their problem is too much fiberglass, same as the horizons. They are actually comparable with the timberline just being a two part shingle and the horizon being one.

 

[minnesotaroofin]

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/repair/msg0821243518283.html?50 here is what some other people think of the customer service at CT

 

[MJW]

Yes, those are horizons. You can't discount a whole company for one line of shingles. Anyhow, good post.

As for GAF, we did a job last fall where the timberlines were 4 years old and cracked from top to bottom. It was a 5-plex with 5 different owners. This claim took 10 months and each owner had to front $1000 of their own money to get it redone. We had to use Timberlines again, and I'm curious to see what the shingles look like in the future, For their sake, I hope it's better. I have seen this more than once.

 

[dougger222]

Finding out both the Horizon and "New" Horizions shangles both have quality issues. It's been known for a while that the NH's have had issues blowing off but now seeing other defects on the shingles within 10 years of install.

Tore off some junky Timberline 25's lately.

Would it be safe to say most Timberlines had a 25 year warranty up until 2-3 years ago? Recall most laminate manufacturers jumping there 25 year warranties to 30 years. Wonder how many actually made the product to last longer?

Agree, an advertisement ploy.

Certainteed although French owned isn't that bad of a company. I know several people that live in and around the Shakopee plant who have worked there many years.

Buying local to me is worth paying more for a better product. I buy my shingles from a small single owned lumber yard. All the felt is Roofers Sellect and the ice and water is Winterguard. 95% of the shingles ordred are Landmarks, the other 5% would be Landmark Plus, Premiums, and TL's.

Certainteeds Master Installer program is one of the best in the business. Certainteed has spent millions of dollars making products better of the years.

A year ago the Shakopee plant added a second plastic strip on the back side the Landmarks to prevent sticking, cost was a million dollars.

 

[MJW]

a million dollars??? for a strip of plastic? is that here-say?

I know when Certainteed made the 25 to 30 year warranty switch, the shingles didn't change. We sold many certainteed 30 year roofs using Landmark 25's that were warrantied to 30 years. Now they are just simply called Landmark.

The old horizons were a tad thicker, but they were a 3 tab shangle.