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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Added a room to our house. Will be ceramic tile in new room & part of existing house. Our tile guy is saying he can "scuff up" the resilient tile in the existing area and lay the ceramic directly over it -- no need to cover with cement board. Hard for me to imagine a decent bond to resilient floor. We really want to do this right the 1st time so would appreciate any advice.
 

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By resilient do you mean vinyl or lino? If so, then the answer is almost invariably NO...NEVER, vinyl/lino, unless it's very VERY thin, is too flexible for ceramic or stone. No more work than it would be to remove it, I wouldn't even put backerboard over it, rip it outta there, backer on thinset, then tiles (obviously) on more thinset.

If resilient, in your post, means hardwood or similar, then just backer over the top would probably be ok.

I'm sure Bill Vincent will be along sometime, he'll jump on this in a about half a second :cheesygri , I'm interested to see what he thinks also, I've read most of the info on his website (not always what everyone seems to think about "the facts of life when tiling") GREAT resource for anything even remotely related to ceramic/stone tiling,
 

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I would agree with taking the vinyl out. Need to be concerned with what is under it. Vinyl is often layed on luan or 1/4" ply, neither of which is a suitable substrate for tile.

Rich
 

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Rich is right. Never install tile without knowing the substrate.
 

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I say remove the Vinyl and bond to the concrete subloor. Or durock if its a wood subfloor. I have laid miles of tiles and yes it does happen when the homepwner wants the tile laid over a vinyl or vct floor. I ask them this would you like to buy your floor once or twice. I have torn out many of tile laid over vinly and its plain and simple. Try this go get some 8 mil plastic staple it to some plywood then install the tile. Leave it in the sunfor a few days then tear if apart and see what your true bond is. The thinset will scrap rite off the tile. I say when In dobt tear it out.
 

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Installing directly over vinyl is a very very very bad idea.
 

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You want to pull that up and put cement board down then tile over that. :Thumbs: MEANING CEMENT BOARD OVER THE PLYWOOD THEN THE TILE :Thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replys. Answers are what I expected. We will make sure the resilient comes out then put down cement board. When I said resilient I guess I should have said sheet vinyl floor. It is over floor joist @ 16" oc, then 1/2" plywood covered with 5/8" particle board.

Another question - I think the tile guy plans to nail the cement board down. Nailing acceptable or does it need to be screwed down??
 

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Get a new tile guy. You don't want this one messing with your investment.

Don
 

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puzzledlog said:
Thanks for the replys. Answers are what I expected. We will make sure the resilient comes out then put down cement board. When I said resilient I guess I should have said sheet vinyl floor. It is over floor joist @ 16" oc, then 1/2" plywood covered with 5/8" particle board.

Another question - I think the tile guy plans to nail the cement board down. Nailing acceptable or does it need to be screwed down??

It should be set in a bed of thinset and screwed down. You may want to look around for a better tile guy, this dude is setting you up to fail.
 

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Noway

YOU WANT TO SCREW CEMENT BOARD DOWN. ALSO MIGHT NOT BE BAD IDEAL TO USE SOME ADHESIVE UNDER CEMENT BOARD BEFORE SCREW IT DOWN. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF NAILING IT DOWN. I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK INTO A NEW CERAMIC TILE CONTRACTOR THIS GUY DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO ME :Thumbs:
 

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I use a duofast siding nailer for all my CBU install saves time. I use a 1 7/8 gal ring shank nail. First thinset the floor then nail away. i just installed 3 pallets of Hardi board in 2 days with a gun. You can screw it but the heads round out or dont countersink enough. Oh yeah tear up that vinyl and bond to the plywood. Thinset and plastic dont mix to well last time i checked and that was today I tore out 350 sq of 8x8 tile over Vinyl it was only installed a year ago. Came up like butta. I say tile it rite or dont do it at all. Look up John Bridge forums as well and ask them over there they will answer with the same replys. They also have a deflo meter over there to tell you how stiff your floor needs to be???
 

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Mike you got it, leveling is the main job....it just happens to be sticky too. The screws(not nails...if they start to work out they'll break your tile) should hold it DOWN, the thinset should hold it UP(level). :)
 

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Mike, Just curious as to how to determine if the subfloor is sound and not liable to create future problems without looking at it?
 

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Just so you know, the particle board has to be removed also, you CAN nail down CBU also and it has to be set in thinset, unmodified at that.:)
 

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Of course you CAN nail down CBU, you COULD just thinset it and leave it at that(theoretically), but all manufacturer specs I've seen say screw it, don't nail it. To me this implies (if it doesn't come right out and say...and some do) that nailing voids the warranty, your customers warranty, remember them? The people that put the food on YOUR table.

Not only that, the odds of nails popping over the years are much greater than screws backing out, either of which would break your tile given the opportunity.
 
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