I see your website links to Schluter. I said before it's a good product. There is room for both of us out there
cement board as shower pan
I am new to this forum and new to the tile trade 39 years ago. I know that this is not the place for advertising. I have figured out a way to use cement board as the shower pan. I will be attending the "Total Solutions" conference in San Antonio in Sept. given by the NCTA and after that I will be using this sight to PURCHASE advertising space and with that display the website link so anyone can check it out.
My question is :
I wanted to know if anyone has seen a post that discusses the use of CBU INSIDE the shower AS the pan.
My question is :
I wanted to know if anyone has seen a post that discusses the use of CBU INSIDE the shower AS the pan.
21 - 40 of 122 Posts
just trying to show you that the material cost is made up on the labor end. Lot quicker vs less material money there is room for you if your system can be approved by my local building dept.
I wanted to add that I am giving you the :thumbup: for being inventive and trying new things. I don't know exactly what it is you are doing, but I will wait and see how your product progresses.
I am a big Schluter supporter - every job is orange!! However, that does not mean I will not look at other options.
However, you must be able to prove that your methods/materials will work - and that involves a lot of $$ doing proper testing. Field testing does not cut it (with me anyway)
One other thing... you need to post threads like this (IMO) in the tile section or bath section - it was just lucky I found it.
I am a big Schluter supporter - every job is orange!! However, that does not mean I will not look at other options.
However, you must be able to prove that your methods/materials will work - and that involves a lot of $$ doing proper testing. Field testing does not cut it (with me anyway)
One other thing... you need to post threads like this (IMO) in the tile section or bath section - it was just lucky I found it.
How about a quick basic explanation on how the system works? I'd really like to know how you're going to get a board of durock to bend to the drain, while giving it full support from underneath.. Does the board get cut up into pie wedges, or is it left whole? How does it attach to the drain? Any particular drain necessary? What if the drain is off center, or at the far end in a rectangular shower? (think tub replacement) How do you waterproof it, and how does the waterproofing continue above the curb height?
You're introducing an idea that seems absolutely ridiculous to a group of professionals who know tried and true methods. If you want a serious discussion on this, you need to give a lot more details on your new system.
Introduce your idea over at the John Bridge tile forum... You'll get feedback from a lot of guys who do nothing but tile all day long. Actually, I'm surprised you didnt find that forum first... It's practically number 1 on Google when you search for anything tile related. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php Include details!
You're introducing an idea that seems absolutely ridiculous to a group of professionals who know tried and true methods. If you want a serious discussion on this, you need to give a lot more details on your new system.
Introduce your idea over at the John Bridge tile forum... You'll get feedback from a lot of guys who do nothing but tile all day long. Actually, I'm surprised you didnt find that forum first... It's practically number 1 on Google when you search for anything tile related. http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php Include details!
Alex,
I need to stay fuzzy on this until after the Total Solutions conference on Sept. 17-18. I'm sorry. I have a non-disclosure agreement with a couple of entities and I will be able to give the details after that. I am a professional of 39 years in the trade a can appreciate your frustration when someone says he has a better mousetrap and then won't show it. No we don't cut the board into pie shapes, PermaBase and Durock are the two boards that will work. A vinyl liner gets clamped into the clamping ring of a standard two part drain ( oatey , Sioux Chief). Liquid water proofing like Mapei Aqua defense or LATICRETE 9235, hydro ban are used at different intervals to actually "waterproof" the cement board, fiber mesh is used to "tape" all corners and wall to floor, verticle wall corners and threshold. AND a SECRET as to how the board is pitched with FULL support under. Again I'm sorry for the need to be so vague at this time. I will try the JohnBridge site and continue to post on this site after I am legally able to. Please be patient.
I need to stay fuzzy on this until after the Total Solutions conference on Sept. 17-18. I'm sorry. I have a non-disclosure agreement with a couple of entities and I will be able to give the details after that. I am a professional of 39 years in the trade a can appreciate your frustration when someone says he has a better mousetrap and then won't show it. No we don't cut the board into pie shapes, PermaBase and Durock are the two boards that will work. A vinyl liner gets clamped into the clamping ring of a standard two part drain ( oatey , Sioux Chief). Liquid water proofing like Mapei Aqua defense or LATICRETE 9235, hydro ban are used at different intervals to actually "waterproof" the cement board, fiber mesh is used to "tape" all corners and wall to floor, verticle wall corners and threshold. AND a SECRET as to how the board is pitched with FULL support under. Again I'm sorry for the need to be so vague at this time. I will try the JohnBridge site and continue to post on this site after I am legally able to. Please be patient.
I doubt it's a secret.Alex,
I need to stay fuzzy on this until after the Total Solutions conference on Sept. 17-18. I'm sorry. I have a non-disclosure agreement with a couple of entities and I will be able to give the details after that. I am a professional of 39 years in the trade a can appreciate your frustration when someone says he has a better mousetrap and then won't show it. No we don't cut the board into pie shapes, PermaBase and Durock are the two boards that will work. A vinyl liner gets clamped into the clamping ring of a standard two part drain ( oatey , Sioux Chief). Liquid water proofing like Mapei Aqua defense or LATICRETE 9235, hydro ban are used at different intervals to actually "waterproof" the cement board, fiber mesh is used to "tape" all corners and wall to floor, verticle wall corners and threshold. AND a SECRET as to how the board is pitched with FULL support under. Again I'm sorry for the need to be so vague at this time. I will try the JohnBridge site and continue to post on this site after I am legally able to. Please be patient.
Again, using sloped backers as a pre-slope is no new thing. My only curiosity is the mortar bed on top of it. That's a hard one to make idiot proof for a DIY-er but there are tricks to that as well (screed guides from fins, pipes, etc.)
I wasn't aware the home centers were selling mesh based anti-fracture/waterproofing membranes like 9235. Maybe this is something new in other markets but certainly not mine.
DIYers should be putting in Jacuzzi shower pans IMO, not trying to do a presloped mud base for tile. They're going to do something wrong and cause an issue. The reason the seasoned vets can charge what they charge is because they know what mistakes can cause issues and how to avoid them. A product that can be used by Joe Schmo the HO is not only going to get people thinking they can do their own bathroom remodels, but get more unlisenced handymen doing it and screwing it up too. I guess we should thank you, though. We'll be around to fix the water damage and the poor plumbing, electrical, and whatever else the DIYer did wrong because they thought they could do their own bathroom remodel.
Again I can take all of these responses as valid concerns. Not all people ( Harry Homeowner ) would try
to do this type of work anyway. The trade pro's will be the guys that I will need to convince and I KNOW
that this will be a large task. As for 9235 being a mesh based anti/fracture, it's a liquid waterproofer.
Brushes or rolls on. In our market, outside of Chicago, fabric is available at the Home Depots and Menards
to do this type of work anyway. The trade pro's will be the guys that I will need to convince and I KNOW
that this will be a large task. As for 9235 being a mesh based anti/fracture, it's a liquid waterproofer.
Brushes or rolls on. In our market, outside of Chicago, fabric is available at the Home Depots and Menards
9235 is a TWO part system comprised of the liquid AND the mesh/fabric.Again I can take all of these responses as valid concerns. Not all people ( Harry Homeowner ) would try
to do this type of work anyway. The trade pro's will be the guys that I will need to convince and I KNOW
that this will be a large task. As for 9235 being a mesh based anti/fracture, it's a liquid waterproofer.
Brushes or rolls on. In our market, outside of Chicago, fabric is available at the Home Depots and Menards
Hydroban is Laticrete's liquid only waterproofer.
Steve, there's nothing wrong with a homeowner doing their own mud pan... It's not a difficult thing to learn, and deck mud is so cheap, one can easily afford the 10 bucks to replace a wavy shower floor the next day if necessary. I see DIY'ers doing it day in, day out over at the tile forum, and you'd be surprised at some of the results. Truly spectacular! (Okay, some of them are horrific in the eyes of the pro's, but with the friendly advice over there, I'd bet the horrific looking ones at least wont leak) I dont worry about helping the HO's over there, they're not taking food off my table. My reputation keeps me plenty busy.
I still wonder about this new secret invention... A vinyl liner under the wonderboard, and 9235 over it... I'm guessing the vinyl is there in case anything gets past the 9235, in which case you're left with some soaked cement board that will just get funky over time.
Since I'm buying a vinyl pan liner anyway, I may as well just get a few bags of deck mud and go at it... That 9235 is expensive pookey...
(For the record though, I only build Kerdi showers... Orange is my favorite color :thumbup: )
I still wonder about this new secret invention... A vinyl liner under the wonderboard, and 9235 over it... I'm guessing the vinyl is there in case anything gets past the 9235, in which case you're left with some soaked cement board that will just get funky over time.
Since I'm buying a vinyl pan liner anyway, I may as well just get a few bags of deck mud and go at it... That 9235 is expensive pookey...
(For the record though, I only build Kerdi showers... Orange is my favorite color :thumbup: )
it's hard to tell what of what you said was sarcasm :shifty:
I wasnt being sarcastic at all... It doesnt always have to be Contractors vs. Homeowners.
2
I framed this soak tub, wrapped it in bending ply.... wire mesh... mortar... then lined and wrapped it in 9235 before installing the tile. Leaked like a sieve the first time and had to be re-lined. 
:furious::furious:
9235 is rated for fountains but I'll never use it inside again. (and putting it in the hands of a rookie is almost criminal.)
It was one of the biggest PITA projects I've ever gone through. 9235 used to be all I used for steam showers--I'll never go back after using Kerdi.
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:furious::furious:9235 is rated for fountains but I'll never use it inside again. (and putting it in the hands of a rookie is almost criminal.)
It was one of the biggest PITA projects I've ever gone through. 9235 used to be all I used for steam showers--I'll never go back after using Kerdi.
Where's Bud Cline when you need him? :whistling
I framed this soak tub, wrapped it in bending ply.... wire mesh... mortar... then lined and wrapped it in 9235 before installing the tile. Leaked like a sieve the first time and had to be re-lined.
9235 is rated for fountains but I'll never use it inside again. (and putting it in the hands of a rookie is almost criminal.)
It was one of the biggest PITA projects I've ever gone through. 9235 used to be all I used for steam showers--I'll never go back after using Kerdi.
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You shouldn't post pictures of work like that, it's going to hurt your reputation. :whistling
Um, but seriously, that's like a work of art. Very nice, very, very impressive! :thumbsup:
Thanks Mike.You shouldn't post pictures of work like that, it's going to hurt your reputation. :whistling
Um, but seriously, that's like a work of art. Very nice, very, very impressive! :thumbsup:
It turned out very nice... but it hurts to think back on how it went together. I pushed the envelope and got burned twice on that job... and both were directly related to the waterproofing. NEVER AGAIN WILL I DEAL WITH THAT BLACK SH**...
It's one of those projects that are always in the back of my head---"God I hope I don't get a call about THAT one again..."
Many people steer me to the Schluter website. I can build a 48x34 shower pan complete for about $200.00
I don't have to order the materials and can pick them up at any "big box" store. Schluter makes great products, but they cost alot more. Next , someone will tell me "you get what you pay for." If you can do the same job for less money that makes sense to me
We do a sh*t load of poured pans. If you can honestly do a 12sq ft shower pan for $200 bucks (I'm assuming this is material and labor not materials) and it's acceptable by the TCNA I'll be the first to hand you some money.
How do we stay posted to this revelation you are about to unleash on the world of tile?
Mike anybody can build a conventional pan that size for $200 if they don't mind working for $4 an hour.
I'm impressed with the job that Christopher posted. That is GREAT work! We agree that 9235 is difficult to work with. I use Aqua Defense and Hydro ban more. I still use a fabric with it to "tape" ALL the corners. For a test, I did my process and then flood tested
a shower pan and left the water in it , unprotected with tile/grout, for SIX WEEKS. Not a drop. If my process can keep a pan waterproof for 6 weeks , it can hold up to a 15 min. shower. To answer the $200 question. NO that's not M-n-L. Materials only
using $90 cost for liquid waterproofing. In my market I get an additional $400 labor for about 2 hours work. Maybe some guys can't work that cheap but I'm ok with it. The tile install is above and beyond this cost. I am promoting the construction of a shower pan,
tile ready, using cement board and my technique. AGAIN I AM VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS. Unless I get the other side, I may of overlooked it and you guys are my piers and experts on this subject. I will be able to "Unleash this Revelation"
by the middle of Sept. But I am encouraged that there has been this much interest and debate on it. It shows me that maybe mud set bases may be going out and the newer products that are different may be the new standard .
a shower pan and left the water in it , unprotected with tile/grout, for SIX WEEKS. Not a drop. If my process can keep a pan waterproof for 6 weeks , it can hold up to a 15 min. shower. To answer the $200 question. NO that's not M-n-L. Materials only
using $90 cost for liquid waterproofing. In my market I get an additional $400 labor for about 2 hours work. Maybe some guys can't work that cheap but I'm ok with it. The tile install is above and beyond this cost. I am promoting the construction of a shower pan,
tile ready, using cement board and my technique. AGAIN I AM VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY NEGATIVE COMMENTS. Unless I get the other side, I may of overlooked it and you guys are my piers and experts on this subject. I will be able to "Unleash this Revelation"
by the middle of Sept. But I am encouraged that there has been this much interest and debate on it. It shows me that maybe mud set bases may be going out and the newer products that are different may be the new standard .
21 - 40 of 122 Posts
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