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tiling baltimore
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
ok now i know there are CBU specific screws. I have about 1000 square feet to screw down in none wet areas. Im using my Senco gun so im buying them collated. Not to sound like a cheap bastard but they get expensive fast. Would the yellow zinc screws suffice? they are about 15$ cheaper per bucket
 

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Carpe Diem
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I mean the floor isn't going to collapse or anything but I don't see why the cost of the proper materials wasn't taken into account when bidding. Once you start skimping on materials because of cost, it's a slippery slope downhill from there.
 

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tiling baltimore
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223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i dont like skimping on much but i was curious if would really make that much of a difference. Ill just spend the extra dough. I mean we still have a few cheap builders and contractors still are putting up CBU with drywall screws because its cheaper and easier for them. and we repetitively tell them that its wrong. I usually end up taking down most of what they put up to correct anyway, but that's another story for another day.
 

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im not feeling that cheap. i kinda prefer screws over nails anyway
If you are using Durock the manufacturer recommends two types of fasteners, Durock screws or hot dipped roofing nails.

So, you could save a significant amount of money and use roofing nails, which are recommended by the manufacturer. Or you could save a paltry sum and use a fastener that isn't recommended by the manufacturer.

Think about it.
 

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Pro
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Inner10 said:
A roofing gun is fvckin fast.
The Senco is pretty fast also, for drywall.

I've never used the CB screws made for the Senco.

I would worry a bit about "bridging".

When I run the hardi screws on a vertical wall, I drive them, back them out and re-drive 'em.

They make a ring-shanked CB collated nail for the siding gun.

Shoot 'em and whack 'em for good measure.

Roofing gun would be fine for a floor that doesn't get wet and the CBU is thinseted to the subfloor.
 

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tiling baltimore
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223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've done the roofing gun before and it is super fast. I dont feel like buying a compressor and gun. Senco gun isn't as fast but still really nice especially with collated CBU screws. Also the bridging doesnt really seem to happen with actual cement board like it can with hardi board
 

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Carpe Diem
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The Senco gun is pretty fast but I usually get about 10-15% of screws that don't totally sink. You need to go back and completely sink them. Not completely fast but better than doing each screw one at a time.

Just remember all the hacks that do tile work. Each time you start skipping steps, you're closer to them. Like I said, the floor isn't going fail because of a few improper screws. However, each step you do correctly adds to the longevity of your install. The morons that drywall screw, skip thinset and don't bother to tape seams are looking at 5 years or less before potential problems.

You want to lower overall install costs? Trying using different materials based off the install. CBU isn't usually the cheapest method of installation. Try dealing with great suppliers that help your bottom line. Home Depot doesn't care about you or your bottom line.

Example. 300 sq ft of flooring over proper framing and plywood. How much in CBU, screws, tape and thinset to install that? Consider your time/fuel to pick up all materials. How long does it take to pick off the shelf, load to vehicle and then offload CBU at site. Time to cut?
Now consider using Green Skin membrane. Ordered exact quantity online, delivered to my front door, carried with 1 arm and installed in a little over an hour without any screws, tape or thinset.

Wanna guess which install is cheaper to do? Wanna guess which install is more profitable? Wanna guess which install is less likely to fail when installed correctly?

Each situation carries its own set of issues and solutions. The more you know about your trade and the products (pricing and availability) to you, the better choices you can make for each project.
 

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TileWizard said:
I've done the roofing gun before and it is super fast. I dont feel like buying a compressor and gun. Senco gun isn't as fast but still really nice especially with collated CBU screws. Also the bridging doesnt really seem to happen with actual cement board like it can with hardi board
Seem to happen...

Hmmm...
 

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I moved from screws to roofing gun a year or so ago. We had several larger floors (+500 sf) that month and using the colombo and spike shoes to spread and lay durock. We would put it down in an hour and half and spend the next 3 screwing as the mortar cured with out the fasteners in place. I realized that even if screws were theoretically better they were worthless if they were not in place at the critical moment. The lower fastener cost is a nice bonus considering that both meet spec.
 

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Paul
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Why anyone is still using cbu on floors has to be one of life's greatest mysteries. Some people just like working hard I guess. Bless their little hearts...
 

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Out here people tend to be late adopters. If i have my choice it is Strata mat but I don't care enough to try and sell them on it.
 

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Paul
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Just out of curiosity, when it comes to tile jobs, why are you guys not specing every material in the assembly? Why do contractors who are 100% responsible for their work allowing anyone else to dictate how said work is performed and what materials are used to do it?

Every single component of a tile job I'm putting a warranty on is going to be one I approve of and prefer to use. The homeowner, GC, retailer, construction supervisor, etc. can all go pound sand when it comes to that. Homeowners don't even get options for things like grout or waterproofing. I bid the job to my specs and it's take it or leave it.

I'll be damned if I'm going to compromise my job to cut their financial corners. Take for instance cbu. If someone just insists on cbu, my labor rate goes up to cover the added time and sweat incurred by doing it their antiquated way.

When I explain that I can carry the average jobs underlayment in by myself in one trip and cut it with a utility knife while inhaling no dust, it makes perfect sense that my labor just tripled.

You guys need to start realizing that you are in more control of your business than you think, if you'd only learn how to go about it.

I don't give options. When a cheap retailer wants to order pallets of thin set that they use on every job no matter the format, material, or substrate I let them know I'll be using what I feel comfortable with and leaving their $9 bags of crap in the warehouse.

I'm not an employee. Neither are you. If you act like one though, don't be surprised if you get treated like it ;)
 

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For myself, concerning CBU - specifically 1/4" durock. I am set up for for it in both technique and equipment to where I am Very profitable installing it. I have no problem using cutting edge products, tools, techniques. . .It is just that (personally for me in my situation) Based on the sqft Rate installing it vs the sqft rate for Schluter or strata mat. I will make about the same money in a days work.
That is specifically why I don't care. My helper and I can install 500Sf of durock in a morning at over $1.00 sf and I don't have to spend one minute - let alone several hours; educating, selling, specking, ordering, scheduling with each new job. . . I'm good with that.

My situation is different from most here, so how I work may not be good for anyone else.
 

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Just out of curiosity, when it comes to tile jobs, why are you guys not specing every material in the assembly? Why do contractors who are 100% responsible for their work allowing anyone else to dictate how said work is performed and what materials are used to do it?

Every single component of a tile job I'm putting a warranty on is going to be one I approve of and prefer to use. The homeowner, GC, retailer, construction supervisor, etc. can all go pound sand when it comes to that. Homeowners don't even get options for things like grout or waterproofing. I bid the job to my specs and it's take it or leave it.

I'll be damned if I'm going to compromise my job to cut their financial corners. Take for instance cbu. If someone just insists on cbu, my labor rate goes up to cover the added time and sweat incurred by doing it their antiquated way.

When I explain that I can carry the average jobs underlayment in by myself in one trip and cut it with a utility knife while inhaling no dust, it makes perfect sense that my labor just tripled.

You guys need to start realizing that you are in more control of your business than you think, if you'd only learn how to go about it.

I don't give options. When a cheap retailer wants to order pallets of thin set that they use on every job no matter the format, material, or substrate I let them know I'll be using what I feel comfortable with and leaving their $9 bags of crap in the warehouse.

I'm not an employee. Neither are you. If you act like one though, don't be surprised if you get treated like it ;)
I don't know much about the flooring business, but often I will have a contract that specs particular brands, products and procedures on engineered plans that are not the typical products I would use. This applies only to commercial work.
 

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Paul
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I don't know much about the flooring business, but often I will have a contract that specs particular brands, products and procedures on engineered plans that are not the typical products I would use. This applies only to commercial work.
Yeah commercial work is like that for flooring as well most of the time. I don't do any large commercial stuff. That's one of the big reasons why ;) Well that and the only way you can make any money is getting large quantities of footage on the floor.... So basically you supply a bunch of jobs to make a little more money that you have to wait 30-45 days to get. Phuck that.
 
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