[Guest]

I've got a cast iron pipe that was t'd off to accomodate a toilet in a bathroom on the second floor. We demolitioned the bathroom. We wanted to move the toilet over a foot to have more room for the sink. There was plenty of room to move the toilet to the code of 30" space. Now the problem is that between Cast Tee and the toilet closet flange there is this type of metalic soft metal. Should I just attach the rubber coupling to the soft metal coming out of the tee or can I or should I somehow remove the soft metal out of the tee. If this is what is going to be suggested what can I do. The tee is on the riser for the vent. This was done many many moons ago. The house was built in 1928. We don't want to replace the Tee and the cast cause it's too close to the ceiling of the kitchen and the kitchen is in perfect condition so we don't want to disrupt the walls or the ceiling. So what are my options and if I attach the rubber coupling to the soft metalic piece coming out of the tee so I can attach the closet flange for the toilet.

Did I explain this clear enough?

So again, what are my options...

 

[PipeGuy]

between Cast Tee and the toilet closet flange there is this type of metalic soft metal. The tee is on the riser for the vent...and if I attach the rubber coupling to the soft metalic piece coming out of the tee so I can attach the closet flange for the toilet.

What is the riser for the vent made of? Is the 'soft metalic piece' a piece of lead pipe? If so, is it firmly connected to the cast tee or is it loose (does it wiggle?) How soft is it - can you crush it with your hand? with channel locks?

 

[Teetorbilt]

I have some knowledge of old plumbing and I believe what you have is something this old plumber that I used to work with called a 'gooseneck'. Does the soft metal look like lead? A 'gooseneck' was a lead pipe that could be bent to accommodate building variations. How is it attached to the cast 'T'? Does it look like lead has been poured around the joint and then beaten into place? Is there a bolted flange?

 

[Guest]

What is the riser for the vent made of? Is the 'soft metalic piece' a piece of lead pipe? If so, is it firmly connected to the cast tee or is it loose (does it wiggle?) How soft is it - can you crush it with your hand? with channel locks?

It's firmly connected and seems pretty snug. It's really soft. bends like solder. Not as a whole piece. It's seems pretty strong as a whole. I cut the flange and elbow off already. I cut a small piece from the piece I originally cut. It bends like solder without . You can dent it too. The rest of the piping for the vent and drain is Cast. That whole piece going from the Tee to the flange is soft. It was all buried in the concrete floor.

 

[Guest]

I have some knowledge of old plumbing and I believe what you have is something this old plumber that I used to work with called a 'gooseneck'. Does the soft metal look like lead? A 'gooseneck' was a lead pipe that could be bent to accommodate building variations. How is it attached to the cast 'T'? Does it look like lead has been poured around the joint and then beaten into place? Is there a bolted flange?

I originally though it was lead. There doesn't seem to be a reason to bend the pipe. The connection for the tee and the soft pipe looked like cast. Didn't even know it was soft til I went to cut it. Caught me by surprise cause I thought it was cast. I think I know what you're talking about. Doesn't seem like anything was poured, beaten, or puddied for that matter. It looked like the other 2 sides of the tee that are cast. Nothing stood out at all. It seemed like it was attached to the flange.

 

[PipeGuy]

It's really soft. bends like solder. It bends like solder without . You can dent it too.

Sounds like Teetorbilt got it right. What's the inside diameter - 3"? Has the profile retained its roundness or is it "egged" in any way?

 

[Teetorbilt]

I don,t know of anything other than lead used in this application so let's go with that. On to Rick's question, round or egged?
All of this counts unless you want ackypuck in the kitchen.

 

[Guest]

Sounds like Teetorbilt got it right. What's the inside diameter - 3"? Has the profile retained its roundness or is it "egged" in any way?

It's a 4" pipe. It's really thin. I'm going to say about 1/16 of an inch. Less then 1/8. It looked just like the cast. I couldn't tell them apart. I do think it's lead. Just wasn't sure though. Same texture and feel as the cast. When I was touching it, I thought it was cast. That is til i started cutting it. As a whole piece(as a pipe) seem pretty strong. I could take the hammer to it and it would just dent. But, as a cut piece( a small one) I could bend it with just my fingers.

 

[Teetorbilt]

No one other than Rick seems to be posting here and I'm not certain of what we are dealing with but pretty sure. Let me toss what we have on some other BB's with resident old guys and see what we can come up with. I already know what I would do, I'd just like some verification before recommending it.

 

[Teetorbilt]

From This Old House:

Judging by the age of the house the soft metal pipe is probably lead pipe. You could test to confirm that by scratching the surface of the pipe with a sharp tool. If it is a lead pipe the surface should scratch fairly easy and would reveal a bright silvery interior in the scratch.

If it is lead pipe you will not be able to join PVC to it with a rubber fernco coupling as the lead pipe walls are too soft to get a firm seal with the clamps.

Fortunately lead is soft and plyable so it should be easy to clean it out of the hub on the cast iron sanitary tee.

I would begin by cutting the lead pipe about 4 or 5 inches from the hub on the cast iron tee.

Using a hammer and a narrow chisel you should be able to then tap the lead pipe right at the edge of the hub and the pipe wall should collapse in on itself so you can then pull the lead out of the lead pipe out of the tee.

The original joint was probably an oakum and lead seal. Oakum is a hair fibrous material that looks like frayed rope.

To make a joint, the pipe was inserted into the hub, the oakum was then packed in the hub to hold the pipe in place and hot molten lead was poured in to complete the seal.

You should be able to pry the lead ring and oakum out of the joint and clean the interior of the hub with a wire brush.

Now insert a PVC pipe into the hub and pack the space between the outside of the PVC pipe and the interior of the cast Irom hub with plumbers epoxy.

Once the epoxy hardens you will have a permanent seal and can continue running the line with PVC.

You can find the plumbers epoxy in the plumbing supply section of Lowes, home depot or most hardware stores.



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[Hammertime]

From This Old House:

Judging by the age of the house the soft metal pipe is probably lead pipe. You could test to confirm that by scratching the surface of the pipe with a sharp tool. If it is a lead pipe the surface should scratch fairly easy and would reveal a bright silvery interior in the scratch.

If it is lead pipe you will not be able to join PVC to it with a rubber fernco coupling as the lead pipe walls are too soft to get a firm seal with the clamps.

Fortunately lead is soft and plyable so it should be easy to clean it out of the hub on the cast iron sanitary tee.

I would begin by cutting the lead pipe about 4 or 5 inches from the hub on the cast iron tee.

Using a hammer and a narrow chisel you should be able to then tap the lead pipe right at the edge of the hub and the pipe wall should collapse in on itself so you can then pull the lead out of the lead pipe out of the tee.

The original joint was probably an oakum and lead seal. Oakum is a hair fibrous material that looks like frayed rope.

To make a joint, the pipe was inserted into the hub, the oakum was then packed in the hub to hold the pipe in place and hot molten lead was poured in to complete the seal.

You should be able to pry the lead ring and oakum out of the joint and clean the interior of the hub with a wire brush.

Now insert a PVC pipe into the hub and pack the space between the outside of the PVC pipe and the interior of the cast Irom hub with plumbers epoxy.

Once the epoxy hardens you will have a permanent seal and can continue running the line with PVC.

You can find the plumbers epoxy in the plumbing supply section of Lowes, home depot or most hardware stores.



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Teetorbilt is exactly right. But, the only problem is it's alot harder then it sounds. If you keep at it, you'll get it. But, just be patient. When i do it; I use a a narrow chisel, a little wider chisel, and a flathead screwdriver. The chisels work good for cutting into the lead pipe and the flathead screwdriver works good for removing the lead that's holding the pipe in. Doesn't cut as quick and tends to make it easier to remove the pieces as more of a whole. Just give it time and you'll find your own way to edge the pipe out and what to do as you go. But, don't be surprised if it takes awhile.

 

[Teetorbilt]

Oddly my experience is entirely opposite of Hammers.
Drive in the right size chisel, pry, and you can pull the ring out by hand.

 

[Hammertime]

Oddly my experience is entirely opposite of Hammers.
Drive in the right size chisel, pry, and you can pull the ring out by hand.

Man!! Make me a video. I've done about 7 of them and 2 were a *****. But, if this is their first time then they're not going to get it right off the bat..But, I hope they do cause it was frustrating for me. Then the more I did..Well, you know...Experience. Now, it's not so bad. I still don't like doing them though. The two that were hard were embedded in the ceiling below. You just can't get to the bottom. If that's similiar to what their doing, it's not going to be easy. You can't even cut the pipe all the way through. You have to cut as far as you can then cut the top half of your pipe off leaving the bottom half exposed then bed it back and forth until it eventually breaks. If they have a little play of space under it then they should be okay. If not, then they're either going to mess up the ceiling below by cracking it or putting a hole in it. That's why take your time and be careful. Piece it out until you can back the rest out easily.

 

[Teetorbilt]

Hammer, It's a lead pipe cinch. Couldn't pass that one up, heheh.
Seriously, as best as any of us can tell it's a lead pour on a lead pipe. Everything should collapse quite easily.