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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
You'll curse yourself later if you do 3 courses of border.
Is it just too much complication with too little value?

I've really never seen anyone do more than 2 courses, so I guess there may be a good reason for it.

Does anyone out there have photos of a several courses of picture framing? I'd like to see it.

-Brett
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Decking material under spa

It seems like a waste to use Ipe or Garapa under the spa which will never see the light of day.

That will be about 56 sq ft or 120 lin ft of decking material.

It would be about a half inch higher than the 1x6 Ipe, but I would have the spas overlap the Ipe by about 4 or 5 inches, so it won't be noticable.

Should I use 2 x 6 PT instead, and save on the expense? Will the PT 2 x hold up better or worse under the PVC Spa base?

Thoughts??
 

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John Hyatt
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Its a mater of Class man. Sticking in pt where the spa goes is getto.

The structure its self will weather the same with either of them. J.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Its a matter of Class man. Sticking in pt where the spa goes is getto.

The structure its self will weather the same with either of them. J.
After looking into this further, the cost savings is insignificant, and the Garapa is actually stronger than the thicker PT Doug Fir or SYP.

Also, sliding the emty spa into place will be easier if I use the harder material.
 

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Is it just too much complication with too little value?

I've really never seen anyone do more than 2 courses, so I guess there may be a good reason for it.

Does anyone out there have photos of a several courses of picture framing? I'd like to see it.

-Brett

IMO, you get the nice border look with just one board, just a lot of extra work. Now if you're going to get paid extra for it then go for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
OK, I'm listening to reason, and here are my current choices for a border. I realize I need to follow the KISS principle to some degree.

Frankly, I'm looking to make this project a showpiece so I can sell other work. I've talked to the building inspector, and many other contratctors in my area and no one does exotic hardwoods. The building inspector said he has never seen one in this town in 3 years.

Plastic decks do not turn me on at all. Real wood is where its at. Just gotta find customers that agree with me.

I'm thinking of using Garapa as the lighter wood, and Ipe as the darker. The contrast is pretty strong, and I plan on using two coats of Flood.

I'm still trying to decide on railings, but using the Fortress railing with real wood top rails looks pretty good.

Which one should I go with?

Mock-up A:

image002.gif

Mock-up B:

image004.gif

Mock-up C:

image006.gif
 

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While I have used the Fortress rails I am not a big fan. To put the bottom of the barrel iron rails on a show deck doesn't make sense to me. Even dressed up w/ipe cap it's gonna look cheap, imo. You want a nice rail go with ipe rails w/deckorator balusters, looks a lot better than fortress. If you want iron rails then get a metal man to make them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
While I have used the Fortress rails I am not a big fan. To put the bottom of the barrel iron rails on a show deck doesn't make sense to me. Even dressed up w/ipe cap it's gonna look cheap, imo. You want a nice rail go with ipe rails w/deckorator balusters, looks a lot better than fortress. If you want iron rails then get a metal man to make them.
Good points.

Do you like to use any brackets or connectors? Such as these: http://www.ufpi.com/PRODUCT/deckorators/connectors/railingconnectors.htm

From my experience, it seems like the joints do not hold up well if railing is built with dementional lumber, and toe nailed.

Also, have you tried any of the real wood post sleeves? Not sure what they use for a cap...
 

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John Hyatt
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John Agrees with the All,as usuall we build a lot the same, also even tho the steel is coated well its still steel and pron to rust. Not good for a showcase Job. But if your still stuck on it drift on over to www.kingmetals.com pretty cool stuff.

For the past few years I have been installing pt posts then wrapping them in S American. To work with in the 3/4''/ 3 1/2'' 5 1/2'' mult I use two pt 2x4s cut down to 3 1/8'' lamed together and blocked /adhesive inside the frame. This way I can use 1x4 / 1x6 for the wrap.Amoung the many advantages to doing this you find about the same money as solid posts, much easier to install for several reasons, a neet look, you dont have to be as pickey cuting the decking in cause the wrap is going over the top and there is enough room to adjust after the post is installed.

You could call it a toe nail but ya thats how I install the top and bottom rail although its a little more complex than that. After you have worked with SA it will tell you a lot about the strength of the mateial's joints. We fasten the cap rail thru the bottom of the top rail,screw/plug into the top of the post.

Black alum balusters have been popular with my Wallets working in a few of those kingmetal ones in the middle is a cool touch also learn to make your own conectors for the alum pipe doing this will put the rail detail price way under the going rate and put some change back in the area reserved for the Litte Lady's new dress fund.

Welcome A Board Rookie!! JonMon
 

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I had not used those rail connectors til our last deck project. I have to say, they look pretty decent and are quicker and probably stronger to install. I wish they were a little cheaper.

In this bidding climate, I can't just keep throwing these upgrades into my original bid. The only way they make it on to a job is as a change order.
 

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Black alum balusters have been popular with my Wallets working in a few of those kingmetal ones in the middle is a cool touch also learn to make your own conectors for the alum pipe doing this will put the rail detail price way under the going rate and put some change back in the area reserved for the Litte Lady's new dress fund.

Welcome A Board Rookie!! JonMon
You know John I tried making my own connectors on a job recently. I do appreciate the tip but, it did not go well, the wood kept getting stuck in the hole saw or I would bust them up screwing them on. Ended up going with deckorators connectors, the new fancy ones, they look good, but dam they rip you on those things.
 

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John Hyatt
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All, All, All,, you got to get that Texas strong hand under control!!!

Say 1 1/2'' x 1 1/2''stock could be redwood,pt,cedar say 3' long, on the drill press you dont go all the way thru leave a 1/2'' or so. Run it thru the table saw cut side toward the fence. The little darlings fall right into your hands.

One of the high points using the wood conectors>> you can glue them in<< I have had little kids unscrew the plastic factory conectors A real pain to fix.

Slow......Down

RE Read,

Again.....

When your installing them just snug them up with the impact,just enough to set the glue thats all you need.

You Texas Boys!!! :laughing: JonMon
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
All, All, All,, you got to get that Texas strong hand under control!!!

Say 1 1/2'' x 1 1/2''stock could be redwood,pt,cedar say 3' long, on the drill press you dont go all the way thru leave a 1/2'' or so. Run it thru the table saw cut side toward the fence. The little darlings fall right into your hands.

One of the high points using the wood conectors>> you can glue them in<< I have had little kids unscrew the plastic factory conectors A real pain to fix.

Slow......Down

RE Read,

Again.....

When your installing them just snug them up with the impact,just enough to set the glue thats all you need.

You Texas Boys!!! :laughing: JonMon

Please post some pictures of what you are describing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
The project is starting to take shape.

Here are a few more recent pictures with the joists cut to length. Still need the 45's cut and rim joist finished.

You can see the three elevations in this shot, and the general size and scope.

IMG_0060.jpg

Its looks rather large from the bottom of the hill looking up.

IMG_0045.jpg
 

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All, All, All,, you got to get that Texas strong hand under control!!!

Say 1 1/2'' x 1 1/2''stock could be redwood,pt,cedar say 3' long, on the drill press you dont go all the way thru leave a 1/2'' or so. Run it thru the table saw cut side toward the fence. The little darlings fall right into your hands.

One of the high points using the wood conectors>> you can glue them in<< I have had little kids unscrew the plastic factory conectors A real pain to fix.

Slow......Down

RE Read,

Again.....

When your installing them just snug them up with the impact,just enough to set the glue thats all you need.

You Texas Boys!!! :laughing: JonMon
I think the problem was not using a drill press, I used a hand held drill on the jobsite. With all the deckorators I install getting a drill press is something I got to do.

BTW, the texas hand ain't so strong anymore, darn near wore out, ha.

Another rain day, great. It doesn't rain here for months & now it won't quit raining.
 

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John Hyatt
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It would be possible to do it hand held,a pain, but possible. The trick is not going clear thru the stock leave 1/2'' or so that will leave a strong 5/8 conector. Also I change out the center bit to 1/8''.

I have been using my ol ragity drill press more and more latley for plugs,baluster conectors and Rosette detail. I have two carbide rosette cutters that really dress up things on benches,covers for the post/beam conection on patio covers, high $ shelves in hot tub rooms things like that. No one else is doing it around here its a big wow for the Wallet and takes very little time. I figure the frame is the frame and decking is decking its the little trim details that do it for Ya.

If I was biding this guy's job I would forget all those diagonals,keep the border,make the breaks at a 90 to inside borders. Take all the money I save buying 5/4 material,the install,and extra cuts and put in trim detail with the railing and such. You would not belive how they sit up and beg with a rosette cut in the rail post.

Hang in there Bud its been raining here for the last month bad way to start the Winter. J.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
It would be possible to do it hand held,a pain, but possible. The trick is not going clear thru the stock leave 1/2'' or so that will leave a strong 5/8 conector. Also I change out the center bit to 1/8''.

I have been using my ol ragity drill press more and more latley for plugs,baluster conectors and Rosette detail. I have two carbide rosette cutters that really dress up things on benches,covers for the post/beam conection on patio covers, high $ shelves in hot tub rooms things like that. No one else is doing it around here its a big wow for the Wallet and takes very little time. I figure the frame is the frame and decking is decking its the little trim details that do it for Ya.

If I was biding this guy's job I would forget all those diagonals,keep the border,make the breaks at a 90 to inside borders. Take all the money I save buying 5/4 material,the install,and extra cuts and put in trim detail with the railing and such. You would not belive how they sit up and beg with a rosette cut in the rail post.

Hang in there Bud its been raining here for the last month bad way to start the Winter. J.

Lets see some pictures, please !! :eek:
 

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John Hyatt
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Wait a sec...that job is in where??? and is going on like now. with green grass and the tandom parked with no ruts,,, no rain, no mud. Bull ****ttttola.
had to edit but I was showing restraint even then. J.
 
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