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Discussion Starter #1
I was thinking running 14-3....both sides dedicated....yeah yeah I know opposite sides of the bus or you will potentially fry the neutral

But aint this how it is usually done? You already need so much wiring for the kitchen this saves space and wire
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ignoring the manufacturer's recommendation for dedicated circuits, I'd run 20A 12/3.
And you would what? Integrate recepticles on those (2) 20 amp circuits? Maybe tag one each for a light too?

I'm trying to come up with a Kitchen plan that makes sense w/o overkill.

NEC says at least (2) 20 amp circuits for a kitchen...plus a dedicated for the micro and frig
 

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The two 20a kitchen circuits (SABC's) cannot be used for either the dishwasher or the garbage grinder.

My SOP is to install a 20a circuit for both.

And yes, they can be wired a 12/3, with a common disconnect, and share a neutral.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The two 20a kitchen circuits (SABC's) cannot be used for either the dishwasher or the garbage grinder.

My SOP is to install a 20a circuit for both.

And yes, they can be wired a 12/3, with a common disconnect, and share a neutral.
Wouldn't a common disconnect put both circuits on one bus? Geez I'm up to 6 circuits w/o lights
 

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Skimping on wire usage is a disservice to your client on more than one front, leaving aside any code issues. The responsible thing to do is not to wire to the absolute minimum requirement.

And with an eye to the future, I suspect that just about any shared-neutral circuits are going to be a problem down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
so now all MWBC's have to be on double pole breakers to comply?
 

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Wouldn't a common disconnect put both circuits on one bus? Geez I'm up to 6 circuits w/o lights
Take a good look how buses in most panels are arranged.
 

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Here, we are required to put all 120v 15 and 20 amp kitchen outlets on AFCI, not just counter top. May be easier to find single pole afci instead of 2 pole. If that is the case, you couldn't share neutral.
 

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Around here the DW and disposal need to be on a single 2 pole breaker. So yes, they share a neutral. Personally I think it's stupid. It puts 220v in that box.
 

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Around here the DW and disposal need to be on a single 2 pole breaker. So yes, they share a neutral. Personally I think it's stupid. It puts 220v in that box.
There's 220 in your electric stove. There's 220 in your electric water heater. There's 220 in your well pump. There's 220 in your bubble tub. There's 220 in your welder. There's 220 in your air conditioner compressor. And there's 220 in your ENTIRE PANEL! Oh, the horrors! :laughing:
 
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Yes I totally understand that. But you expect it to be there. It's a 220 volt outlet so you expect 220v to be there. This is two 120v outlets with the capacity for you to get 220v out of it.

If you take wire and plug it into each outlets hot you get 220v. You don't get that with an ordinary outlet.

All this is to save 1 wire.

You are thinking like an electrician, not the normal moronic home owner.
 

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Yes I totally understand that. But you expect it to be there. It's a 220 volt outlet so you expect 220v to be there. This is two 120v outlets with the capacity for you to get 220v out of it.

If you take wire and plug it into each outlets hot you get 220v. You don't get that with an ordinary outlet.

All this is to save 1 wire.

You are thinking like an electrician, not the normal moronic home owner.
That's why moronic HOs should call simeone qualified
 

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Of all the codes I've seen written I've seen some pretty stupid ones because 1 person got themselves killed because they were a stupid HO. Yet a new code was written.

This is one of those codes that should have never been written.

They made a code that you can't put a panel box within 3 feet of a window because some stupid person reached in a window and killed himself off because he reached into the open panel.

That's a stupid code.
 

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Yes I totally understand that. But you expect it to be there. It's a 220 volt outlet so you expect 220v to be there. This is two 120v outlets with the capacity for you to get 220v out of it.

If you take wire and plug it into each outlets hot you get 220v. You don't get that with an ordinary outlet.

All this is to save 1 wire.

You are thinking like an electrician, not the normal moronic home owner.
Being an electrician, I expect just about ANY box can have 220 in it. Or 208. Or 480.

If said 'normal moronic home owner' gets zapped because they're a normal moron, oh well. They're free to kill themselves with their own stupidity. No law against that.
 

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Obviously, since people seem to be getting dumber and dumber every code cycle has more and more ridiculous requirements to keep them alive. I say let Darwin do his thing. :whistling

-Hal
Agreed.

If Darwin was right, how come there's still so many stupid people? :whistling
 
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