Nice introduction.
Buyer wants it for free (duh) - advice?
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1 - 20 of 97 Posts
Horrible first thread. First rule of CT, DON'T DISCUSS PRICING, 2nd, 3rd, 4th....... Read the first rule. And hell no, 1700 sqft is a small ranch, until you think of the 15' ceilings. If you don't know what it would cost you to build it, how can we...
I'd recheck my contract and see what it says about change orders.
Next, I'd explain to him that his house is not worth you business if you were to lose it or your reputation because you're doing some plumbing work for this dink on his 3 car garage with lifts, dog wash, 15 feet ceilings...
I think I'd tell him that if he would like to enter into a conspiracy to defraud the plumber and the permitting authorities then he has the wrong guy.
As for charging him, of course you would charge him, what does he honestly expect? That you would work for free? Does he honestly think the roofers are going to roof that garage for free? How about the materials suppliers? Does he think they are going to just give him a 1700 sq ft garage worth of materials for free?
Like the man said, you have to be joking.
Next, I'd explain to him that his house is not worth you business if you were to lose it or your reputation because you're doing some plumbing work for this dink on his 3 car garage with lifts, dog wash, 15 feet ceilings...
I think I'd tell him that if he would like to enter into a conspiracy to defraud the plumber and the permitting authorities then he has the wrong guy.
As for charging him, of course you would charge him, what does he honestly expect? That you would work for free? Does he honestly think the roofers are going to roof that garage for free? How about the materials suppliers? Does he think they are going to just give him a 1700 sq ft garage worth of materials for free?
Like the man said, you have to be joking.
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This is real simple .I am not a builder but have worked with enough of them to know your 1st mistake was to agree to a flat rate to build a custom house . Unless your flate rate was double the going percentage to build custom . I'm guessing that isn't the case .
Around here it is cost plus a certain percentage . That keeps the homeowner somewhat in line as far as changes and at least compensates you for having to deal with said changes .
But since you went this route I would divide your flat rate into the projected cost of the house and you have your percentage . Then apply it to the garage . Normally I would say deduct some off this percentage since it is a garage BUT it sounds like this future homeowner is going to work you really good on the main house anyway so you might as well try and make a buck off the garage .
Sorry guy but I can see all the changes this guy is going to want to make as you go along and you will be doing them for you flat rate . He already has the upper hand .
Or keep him happy and build the garage for free . I'm sure his thinking is your going to be on site anyway right ???
Wait until the wife comes in and decides to move walls after your trades have been through .
Around here it is cost plus a certain percentage . That keeps the homeowner somewhat in line as far as changes and at least compensates you for having to deal with said changes .
But since you went this route I would divide your flat rate into the projected cost of the house and you have your percentage . Then apply it to the garage . Normally I would say deduct some off this percentage since it is a garage BUT it sounds like this future homeowner is going to work you really good on the main house anyway so you might as well try and make a buck off the garage .
Sorry guy but I can see all the changes this guy is going to want to make as you go along and you will be doing them for you flat rate . He already has the upper hand .
Or keep him happy and build the garage for free . I'm sure his thinking is your going to be on site anyway right ???
Wait until the wife comes in and decides to move walls after your trades have been through .
DAMN, I missed it....
Hot and muggy day... then this thread.
If he can't take it here, he ain't gonna make it out in the real world. :thumbsup:..............You may have to take a little abuse,but it will be worth what you can learn.
He must be new to the business.
Never heard of GC charging flat rate, bet that changes that on the next one.
Never heard of GC charging flat rate, bet that changes that on the next one.
Maybe he learned enough after all!
OK, I'll come back. Actually I did leave after the first three responses because I figured I was in a forum full of trolls and flamers who like to post a lot even when they don't really have anything to say.
And no I'm not new to the business. I'm a second generation builder and have been involved (either solely or in partnerships) in developing about 1000 residential lots, so to whoever said I won't last...I'm still here and have been here for a long time.
The house is cost plus $/SF. My question wasn't should I build the detached garage for free. Why would I do that? My question was to get a second opinion about whether my fee on the detached garage of $5/SF was reasonable. I think it is. I always like to bounce things off of other people before charging off and making a situation worse.
Oh yeah, someone said something about me being at a disadvantage due to the contract. Not so. I wrote the contract. They signed it. They are using my banker who I have know for 10 years. They are building in MY development and I am the current president of the HOA. I am also the current and only member of the design review committee. Everything has to be approved by me whether I am the builder or not. In the termination section of the contract there are only a few itmes that give them the right to terminate me and even then they have to give me a certain amount of time to remedy. Even then if there is any kind of a dispute it has to go to mediation and arbitration. I think I hold the cards, not them.
Why would I change from cost + $/SF if it is working for me deckman? I get paid after every phase (blueprint, permit, pad site, foundation, slab, frame, roof, etc, etc). I think it's a lot simpler than cost + %. To each his own.
And no I'm not new to the business. I'm a second generation builder and have been involved (either solely or in partnerships) in developing about 1000 residential lots, so to whoever said I won't last...I'm still here and have been here for a long time.
The house is cost plus $/SF. My question wasn't should I build the detached garage for free. Why would I do that? My question was to get a second opinion about whether my fee on the detached garage of $5/SF was reasonable. I think it is. I always like to bounce things off of other people before charging off and making a situation worse.
Oh yeah, someone said something about me being at a disadvantage due to the contract. Not so. I wrote the contract. They signed it. They are using my banker who I have know for 10 years. They are building in MY development and I am the current president of the HOA. I am also the current and only member of the design review committee. Everything has to be approved by me whether I am the builder or not. In the termination section of the contract there are only a few itmes that give them the right to terminate me and even then they have to give me a certain amount of time to remedy. Even then if there is any kind of a dispute it has to go to mediation and arbitration. I think I hold the cards, not them.
Why would I change from cost + $/SF if it is working for me deckman? I get paid after every phase (blueprint, permit, pad site, foundation, slab, frame, roof, etc, etc). I think it's a lot simpler than cost + %. To each his own.
There are a lot of forums with the usual # of flamers and trolls.If you are new here and ask specifically about pricing you'll get jumped on.
There have been a lot of"what do I charge" ?'s lately and they generally don't sit well.Assumptions are made and it becomes a free for all.
I didn't get to read your original post,but your second explains your position and experience.
Anyhow,
You know what worked for you in the past,and I would assume know the costs involved in framing in your area ,which would be good to know to make a regional estimate .
Five dollars a sq/ft for labor on framing here would probably be a bit underpriced.
There have been a lot of"what do I charge" ?'s lately and they generally don't sit well.Assumptions are made and it becomes a free for all.
I didn't get to read your original post,but your second explains your position and experience.
Anyhow,
You know what worked for you in the past,and I would assume know the costs involved in framing in your area ,which would be good to know to make a regional estimate .
Five dollars a sq/ft for labor on framing here would probably be a bit underpriced.
No, I'm not a framer. I'm the builder, the GC. The $5 per square foot was my proposed fee on the 1670 SF detached garage only - not on the house - the house is much more per square foot and is a separate issue. We are already buiding the house. It's not a problem.
Basically for this $5 per SF I would contract (on the detached garage) the dirt work, foundation, slab, frame, brick/stone, roof, paint, electrical, doors/windows, garage door openers, etc, etc and probably some plumbing. This detached garage will have to have its own permit and inspections.
I know what it will cost to build. My question was whether my fee of $5/SF seemed reasonable. We have just started the house and the buyer thinks that since we're already there working it will kind of just almost build itself. Obviously its more work for me and I want to get paid for it. He knows now he is going to have to pay me something for my time and effort, we just haven't agreed on that amount yet. I think $5/SF is fair and he thinks its too high.
Basically for this $5 per SF I would contract (on the detached garage) the dirt work, foundation, slab, frame, brick/stone, roof, paint, electrical, doors/windows, garage door openers, etc, etc and probably some plumbing. This detached garage will have to have its own permit and inspections.
I know what it will cost to build. My question was whether my fee of $5/SF seemed reasonable. We have just started the house and the buyer thinks that since we're already there working it will kind of just almost build itself. Obviously its more work for me and I want to get paid for it. He knows now he is going to have to pay me something for my time and effort, we just haven't agreed on that amount yet. I think $5/SF is fair and he thinks its too high.
So the 5 a foot is just your fee- not the actual charge to build?
If I understand correctly, a 500 sq. ft. garage would have a fee of $2,500 that you tack on for managing the project... but that project actually will cost much more (I'm guessing 10k-50, depending on style, etc.)??
~Matt
If I understand correctly, a 500 sq. ft. garage would have a fee of $2,500 that you tack on for managing the project... but that project actually will cost much more (I'm guessing 10k-50, depending on style, etc.)??
~Matt
1 - 20 of 97 Posts
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