Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
I'm in Michigan and I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that's not true. Here is the relevant paragraph:
A corporation, partnership, association, limited liability company, or other entity that applies for a license, must designate 1 of its officers, partners, members or its managing agent as a qualifying officer. A qualifying officer is responsible for exercising the supervision or control of the building or construction operations and must maintain a license as an Individual Residential Builder or Maintenance & Alteration Contractor, as applicable.

You will note that the qualifying officer needs to supervise and/or control the operations, which you are not. I would talk to a construction lawyer if I were you.

It is NOT at all common in Michigan to rent out your Builder's License, so there is no market. I don't know of a single builder or sub renting their license from or to another company or individual. I can't imagine a legitimate contractor doing $8M in sales who can't afford one licensed employee. The license is not difficult to get, knowledge-wise, but there are background checks.
From what I was told its up to the city building department to allow power of attorney. For instance Monroe doesn't allow a power of attorney. I have to go there personally to pull the permit. As far as supervising I can't be at every job. I don't know a single gc thats gone to every job; unless there was a issue. There's a few subcontractors that I know use someone else's builders license. I just don't know what they charge. As far as saying its not hard to get a builders license that's your opinion. I appreciate the info though.
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
2,142 Posts
Getting a builder's license in Michigan is a walk in the park compared to getting licensed in Florida; I've had both. I've never seen or heard of the cops in Michigan having an unlicensed contractor sting operation; you read of one every six months or so in Florida. With the tuition, books, overnights, and tests, you'll be out about 4K for a Florida license, plus about 100 unpaid hours. All this affects supply and demand. You'll pay several thousand dollars or more a month for a Florida qualifier, or you won't be in business long.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
517 Posts
. As far as supervising I can't be at every job.
You are not required to be at every job, but you need to know what is going on. If there is bid rigging, it’s your neck on the line. Playing games with payments to subs and vendors ... you again. Not paying payroll taxes to the government ... yep.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Getting a builder's license in Michigan is a walk in the park compared to getting licensed in Florida; I've had both. I've never seen or heard of the cops in Michigan having an unlicensed contractor sting operation; you read of one every six months or so in Florida. With the tuition, books, overnights, and tests, you'll be out about 4K for a Florida license, plus about 100 unpaid hours. All this affects supply and demand. You'll pay several thousand dollars or more a month for a Florida qualifier, or you won't be in business long.
Yeah I heard Florida is pretty tough. Never heard of a contractor sting though, I'll have to look those up for sure. Thanks for the info!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
You are not required to be at every job, but you need to know what is going on. If there is bid rigging, it’s your neck on the line. Playing games with payments to subs and vendors ... you again. Not paying payroll taxes to the government ... yep.
Right I understand that. The plan is to eventually take my business to the next level. I'm just trying to secure the funds to do it. I spend a lot of time at my regular job, doing side jobs on the side (mostly flat roofs), then be their QO. I'm learning a lot in this forum. I appreciate it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
If you can't afford a lawyer, call LARA and ask them if it's legal to rent your license out. That's a free telephone call. And let us know what they say.
Once you've done that, you can decide if you want to operate legally or illegally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Its not a matter of being legal or not. A lawyer wrote up the power of attorney. I am liable for all of the roofing and siding they do. I'm just inquiring about a fee thats all.
 

·
Registered
GC
Joined
·
99 Posts
You're liable for $8 million of work per annum that if done incorrectly could lead to hundreds of million of damage and you're wondering if $6,000 is enough?

Well, I guess that depends on your risk tolerance. For me, not a chance in hell.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
Thank you I appreciate your insight. Yes I feel the same, the amount im getting paid vs liability; is not adding up to me
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
2,142 Posts
Thank you I appreciate your insight. Yes I feel the same, the amount im getting paid vs liability; is not adding up to me
I used to charge $250.00 to drill a faucet hole in a granite top; took about 3 minutes. One time I used a wet bit dry and buried a diamond band in a 6'x10' granite island when the heat destroyed the braze. I damn near fainted. When I drilled out the diamond band, the larger dry bit hit it and the dry bit skipped across the top. I finally got through and fixed the scuffs, but in the truck on the way home I realized that betting a $6,000.00 island for the chance to make $250.00 didn't make a lot of business sense. Same thing here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
I used to charge $250.00 to drill a faucet hole in a granite top; took about 3 minutes. One time I used a wet bit dry and buried a diamond band in a 6'x10' granite island when the heat destroyed the braze. I damn near fainted. When I drilled out the diamond band, the larger dry bit hit it and the dry bit skipped across the top. I finally got through and fixed the scuffs, but in the truck on the way home I realized that betting a $6,000.00 island for the chance to make $250.00 didn't make a lot of business sense. Same thing here.
I never really thought about that. I definitely appreciate your story. That really puts things into perspective, thank you.
 

·
90%-er
Joined
·
1,382 Posts
I am also in Michigan and have never heard of this... Renting your license? How does an 8 million dollar company not have several licensed builders on regular staff? This does not pass the smell test. Am I missing something?

Yes it took a little work to get the builder's license, but watching a week's worth of videos in an online course then going downtown to take a two hour test was not exactly a huge burden.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
I am also in Michigan and have never heard of this... Renting your license? How does an 8 million dollar company not have several licensed builders on regular staff? This does not pass the small test. Am I missing something?

Yes it took a little work to get the builder's license, but watching a week's worth of videos in an online course then going downtown to take a two hour test was not exactly a huge burden.
Wasn't just a week for me. I was working a lot back then. I'd start from 8 a.m. to about 8 p.m. sometimes even later. Everyone's lives are different, whats easy for some is hard for others. Im honestly surprised you never heard of this. The owner of the company is a really lazy guy. He'll pay others to do his work, but as cheap as possible. A lady was let go because she would put the mail on his desk, instead of opening them and telling him.
 

·
90%-er
Joined
·
1,382 Posts
Wasn't just a week for me. I was working a lot back then. I'd start from 8 a.m. to about 8 p.m. sometimes even later. Everyone's lives are different, whats easy for some is hard for others. Im honestly surprised you never heard of this. The owner of the company is a really lazy guy. He'll pay others to do his work, but as cheap as possible. A lady was let go because she would put the mail on his desk, instead of opening them and telling him.
Bud, 60 hours is 60 hours. One week, two weeks... Even if you poked away at it for a month, it is still relatively easy to get in Michigan. Probably too easy, if you ask me.

But that's my point: relatively hard for some, easy for others. Doesn't matter. The barrier to getting one is not consequential for a company doing $22,000 in sales EVERY day. Pay a couple of guys two weeks of their salary to sit in a clasroom and get this license, then be free of paying rent for life.
Even if it were difficult to get , it is strange as hell to only pay $500 A MONTH to use yours.

If I were using a piece of property to earn nine or ten grand a month, I'd sure as hell be expecting to pay more than five hundred bucks to rent it.
 

·
90%-er
Joined
·
1,382 Posts
It has been my understanding that pulling a permit for someone else (and since you are a 1099 guy, that is exactly what you are doing, legally) is straight up illegal. Entirely possible I am completely wrong about that, but at a minimum I would be chatting with an attorney friend to make sure, because you are incurring some serious liability
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Bud, 60 hours is 60 hours. One week, two weeks... Even if you poked away at it for a month, it is still relatively easy to get in Michigan. Probably too easy, if you ask me.

But that's my point: relatively hard for some, easy for others. Doesn't matter. The barrier to getting one is not consequential for a company doing $22,000 in sales EVERY day. Pay a couple of guys two weeks of their salary to sit in a clasroom and get this license, then be free of paying rent for life.
Even if it were difficult to get , it is strange as hell to only pay $500 A MONTH to use yours.

If I were using a piece of property to earn nine or ten grand a month, I'd sure as hell be expecting to pay more than five hundred bucks to rent it.
Agree to disagree, opinion is determining what is easy. Almost everyone in michigan would have a license. I can't agree with you on license; however, the building departments on the other hand, what a joke.
Yeah you'd think they would do that, train their employees. I don't think he's concerned as long as he makes his money. But most importantly that he makes more than anyone else. The owner believes the workers should be producing money when at work not training.
 

·
90%-er
Joined
·
1,382 Posts
Agree to disagree, opinion is determining what is easy. Almost everyone in michigan would have a license. I can't agree with you on license; however, the building departments on the other hand, what a joke.
Yeah you'd think they would do that, train their employees. I don't think he's concerned as long as he makes his money. But most importantly that he makes more than anyone else. The owner believes the workers should be producing money when at work not training.
Screw this short-sighted clown then. Training someone to get a license instead of renting one ad infinitum from a 1099 guy IS an employee producing money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
Screw this short-sighted clown then. Training someone to get a license instead of renting one ad infinitum from a 1099 guy IS an employee producing money.
Lol yeah I agree with you there. I think its time to raise the price with the stakes. I do appreciate your advice and input, thank you!
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
2,142 Posts
Yeah I heard Florida is pretty tough. Never heard of a contractor sting though, I'll have to look those up for sure. Thanks for the info!
They apparently have the same crew that catches the kiddie predators, but instead of posing as horny 13-year-old girls, they pose as homeowners. Just like the predators, these guys show up to the bait house offering to do all types of illegal stuff. Interestingly enough, they are charged with Worker's Compensation fraud nearly as often as contracting without a license because they don't seek an exemption on themselves or have any on their employees.
 
21 - 40 of 53 Posts
Top