Over here Smartsiding is OSB with a wood looking skin on the outside:whistling and yes we just nail it to the studs with tyvek of coarse:blink: so how many layers of shear do you need up there:blink: What do the plans say:blink: Check with your engineer and see how many layers of shear you need to make it sound:blink:

 

i would just put tyvek and nail to the studs, the smart side is essentially a 3/8" OSB panel so shear should be sufficient

 

Hi Framing Pro

Do you use 3/8 smart side:blink: because the smartside I've always used is 5/8"

 

i have never used it. But i plan on using it on any sheds i do. I saw it yesterday and it was 3/8" you may be mistaking it for T1-11 siding which is solid wood and 5/8" or thicker

 

always sheath then siding,makes everything much easier to flash:thumbsup:

i think in Alaska they have earthquakes

 

They install both ways here. Single wall construction is a price point thing. Its not as welly built as double wall and as Tom said its alot harder if not impossible to flash correctly.

 

Ive never seen 3/8" only 7/16" and 5/8".

Most of these guys were putting up t111 before either of us were born.

Thats kind of unfair because the pro was born in 96

 

I said either of us though and I was 79. I think DWB was framing then. Right?

 

I just want to say that DWB is the king of the smiley:clap:. That sheep thing is still killing me!

 

No man I'm not at all,, I learned everything I know from PrestigeR&D and he is the undisputed king of the smiley. When I didn't even know how to post a smiley he had me rolling till I hurt:thumbsup:

 

I agree with mr struble. Sheath, drainage plane and then side. Are people seriously putting typar directly over studs and then applying a t1-11 type sheet and calling it good?!?!? Maybe for a tool shed, but not a conditioned building.

 

Mr. Wood sheet goods are put right on the studs all the time here, even with the earthquakes only one layer of sheer is needed. And when we tyvek and tape a house no waters getting in.

 

I guess I should preface my comments by disclosing I own a company that has a contract with LP to teach proper installation methods & techniques to installers of LP SmartSide. My company is the producer of the BuildSmart Preferred Remodeler Training Events.

SmartSide panels come in several thicknesses - 3/8" (38 Series), which requires sheathing behind it, 7/16" (76 Series), which is rated as a structural panel for direct-to-stud applications @ 16" centers, & 19/32" (190 Series) which is rated for direct-to-stud @ 24" centers. Note that all the above reference the Precision Series Line.

Yes, some installers do go direct to stud with panels in certain applications. LP says it's okay as long as installation guidelines are followed, including installing a weather resistant barrier (WRB) behind the panels, flashing them properly, etc.

My recommendation is to contact LP & talk to either a technical guy or a local sales rep. LP is very willing to assist those installing their product & will get you the necessary installation instructions you need, as well as make sure the correct product is spec'd & ordered.

If anyone has specific questions about the Preferred Remodeler Program, feel free to ask me & I'll do what I can to answer them.

 

Thank You for the insight GRB:thumbsup:

 

Any time. :thumbsup:

And again, if I can ever help any of you guys with questions about the product or the training program, just ask - I'm happy to tell you what I know (which isn't much), but I do have phone numbers to folks at LP who are a lot smarter than I am. :thumbup:

 

Quality

So it sounds like I can apply directly to the studs, but only if 9/16 LP smartside product as there are 24" centers. However, applying sheathing with OSB, then Tyvek first would be a higher quality approach and allow easier flashing.

 

So it sounds like I can apply directly to the studs, but only if 9/16 LP smartside product as there are 24" centers. However, applying sheathing with OSB, then Tyvek first would be a higher quality approach and allow easier flashing.

Right on.

If you can spec one installation over another, I'd go the siding over WRB over structural sheathing route all the time for conditioned spaces for the reason you mentioned - easier integration of the flashings into the WRB & a more stout wall assembly.

I wouldn't hesitate to go direct-to-stud on sheds & outbuildings, but I'd still make sure I followed the LP instructions to the T. There's a good warranty on the product, so no point voiding it by not following the instructions.

 

There are literally thousands of homes down here built with 5/8" T-1-11 siding over 16" & 24" oc studs directly over some sort of barrier. Some is Kraft paper, 15# & 30# felt and the assorted Tyvek junk.

 

Griz, it seems to be a regional thing. My understanding is that areas in the Midwest (around Kansas City), parts of the south, & some of the west still build that way - & maybe other areas I'm not aware of.

Around here we've seen lots of T-1-11 applied over buffalo board sheathing with no WRB. Dunno what the purpose of the buffalo board is, as there's no strength & almost no R value to it. Maybe it's just a filler so standard 4 9/16" jamb windows will fit.

 

A small guest house we built this summer for one of my favorite clients, on their ranch. 4x8 cedarmill Hardie, 1x2 Hardy on 12" center, two step window and door trim. Rock wainscot

 

Your not gaining any real structural elements going with single wall or double wall. One layer of shear is all thats needed unless otherwise speced and then it would be one layer outside and one layer inside. The double wall just allows for a more integrated flashing and another layer to supress airflow. A house with cedar lap siding or shingles still has only one layer of structural sheathing. I have only framed a few single wall buildings and I always had a problem with how to flash the windows. You cant use a z metal on the header piece of trim and I dont really like water being stoped by only a sealent.

 

Yep. Though when I was referring more to a denser wall assembly when I said more stout. Even 5/8" panels direct to studs sound & feel cheap to me, where a thinner panel over ply or OSB sheathing has more mass.

I agree the flashing integration is really the key advantage to a double wall assembly.

We've flashed direct-to-stud panels & windows with Z flashing, but it's kind of a pain. There are a couple options for windows & doors that have brickmold or similar exterior casing.

Either install the window first, tight to the framing, & flash the head to the header. Then cut the panel around the installed window & seal the perimeter as normal.

The other option is to install the panel, but leave a space at the head of the window opening for a piece of trim that gets installed after the window. Install the window, again flashing the head to the header. Then slip a piece of head casing with Z flashing attached to it into the space left earlier, being sure to slide the Z flashing behind the WRB.

This method allows us to trim windows & doors as normal, with a head casing, 2 legs, & a sill. The only difference is the head casing needs to be thicker than the legs by the thickness of the siding (assuming the legs will be installed over the panel). It also provides for 2 points of flashing at the heads.

 

didn't i say all of this in 3 sentences like 20 post ago?:blink:..none of you guys listen

 

Did you say something? :laughing:

 

didn't i say all of this in 3 sentences like 20 post ago?:blink:..none of you guys listen

I think you got it in one sentence tommy.

 

how the h^ll ya been Chris,nice to see you:thumbup:

 

Great busy. Really trying to get the general side up and going good.

Still have a few big frames coming this summer.

Seems like theres not as much participation on here anymore. Sorta lost interest in posting picks if they dont lead to questions.

Were going to start siding the 13000 sq ft build tommorrow. Im going to use green gaurd drain wrap on it, I think it will work better with true batt and board being somewhat green. Let it dry more evenly front and back. Waiting on a couple cap nailers to get here. To put it on, lots of windy days up there.

We are milling all our own lumber on this monster, including lap siding. The owner owns a portable mill and about 40000 acres of ground with a bunch of standing dead on it. I think I figured out a jig to cut the lap siding. We did a test with one piece on a simple mock up jig and it worked perfectly. A weak jig that ends up tearing up the mill would be oops. I might post some picks of the mill and the process. We are also cutting 8x16 for knee braces. 3x6 and 3x4 for trim.

 

wow sounds really cool:thumbup:

i've gone to tyvek drain/stucco wrap with almost everything,one thing i can't figure out they want it taped and i can see doing vertical joints but i have a hard time understanding how it works on horizontal seams

they recommend using 3'' tape but still i don't see how you get an effective seal

 

I agree. To me taping is counter productive, the lap will take care of run off. I like how green gaurd says to either caulk tape or leave alone. I also tore into a house with tyvek stucco wrap, basically the same as drain wrap. The lap siding had completly smashed the ribs flat on almost every row. With the green gaurd hard fibers running vertically its impossible to smash it.

 

i don't know alot of long words:sad:

Chris,i agree Tyvek drain wrap is easy to install too ''tight'' and in the process remove the wrinkles you want,should be some sort of horizontal control

they should come out with a wrap that has glue on bottom,sort of like masking paper

 

i don't know alot of long words:sad:

He lost me too :huh: