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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got called to bid on a state job to redo this wall.
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Here they give you the proposal with all the info needed to do the job, including the price.
as a contractor, you look over their proposal and the price for each description, and then give the amount as a percentage of the job as a whole you are willing to do it for less.
That is for example, if they list a finished price of 1000.00, and you can do it for 900.00, you will bid a -10%.
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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909 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
The Proposal is
1. 3300 sq.ft - Scaffolding including all that is needed to be up to standard
price $8200
2. 2200sq.ft - removing old cement plaster including transport to landfill
price $5800
3. 1000sq.ft - closing all irregularities before new plaster with cement based plaster(screed)
price $3500
4. 2200 sq. ft.new plaster with mesh screen sandwiched using Mapei planitop HDM maxi
(one of their bi-component cement repairing mortars)
price $29000
5. 1500sq.ft - wet blasting stone work and sealing
price $3000
6. eventual jobs unforeseeable
price $5000


Total works to do $54500.00, a -10% here is 5450.00
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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909 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I have till the 10th to bring my sealed offer
Since this is in a different country,
I figure the price law police on this site will forgive me

How would you tackle this, there are 28 small median sized Contractors bidding this.
this is relatively a simple job to price so I already know what discount to give
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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909 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
How was the base price determined and by whom?
The State has a team of Archii's and Engineers that determine
the price using various methods, past public works, other GC's, Other companies. no-one really knows.
But they are within the basic costs most of the time
 

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Is it as simple as the state takes the lowest bid of the invited contractors.... anything else you can sell on....

How hungry are ya.... what's your schedule look like.... what's your hard cost estimate look like.... what's your competition likely to do....

WAG... I guess

Good luck
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
if you've noticed at the end, they allow 5g's leeway,
another thing is you beer all cost until paid, which usually is 120 days after certificated by Engineer. and 10% they hold on for 18 months as guarantee.
But, I have won quite a few and they are very good paying jobs, if you know how to take them on.
The big state jobs have seen decreases in price up to 35%

As you all know, most technical studios never hit dead-on (rarely) on the scope of the jobs to be performed. And worst is they change week by week what to be done, worst yet there really is no-one person in charge(pass the buck),
thats the best things for a GC to be confronted with
 

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brunothedog said:
I have till the 10th to bring my sealed offer Since this is in a different country, I figure the price law police on this site will forgive me How would you tackle this, there are 28 small median sized Contractors bidding this. this is relatively a simple job to price so I already know what discount to give
How does it work with business tax / licenses in another country work . Is there crossing police check points .
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Is it as simple as the state takes the lowest bid of the invited contractors.... anything else you can sell on....
(Lowest bidder wins)

How hungry are ya(nothing to do with hunger, State jobs can be very lucrative).... what's your schedule look like.... what's your hard cost estimate look like.... what's your competition likely to do....

WAG... I guess

Good luck
Finally we get into the dark regions. where i lurk
KNOW YOUR COMPETITION
it has nothing to do with being 1 point up on them or using not legal tactics for gaining information.
Its has everything to do with putting them down, and getting them out of your way.

not so much on these small jobs, but on the 1-4 mil. jobs there are so many change orders, and change orders for the change orders, that you must pay for your own geometer to keep count.
If you bid only what you see, there is not much margin. Many won't risk. many are bankrupt

For the big-boy works you gotta have at least 15 employees.
then you can bid on anything the Government/state has to do

When I was a GC and we were in 17(numbers are easy to get without actually have employees on the job) we won a 1.7 mil churn to renovate.

My bid was -34.43%which we were luck to lose only 350k if things went well.
The total cost finished came to close to 4.8 mil.
I had hired 2 geometers only to take care of the change orders.
 
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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
How does it work with business tax / licenses in another country work . Is there crossing police check points .
the UE is set up something like in the states, no borders and come and go as you please.
You pay the fee, and you are a licensed
contractor in any almost any country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Are you required to carry a performance bond for this kind of work?
Over 100 k, yes.
Depends on the job, some 15%, some 10%
I do it all thru the Insurance Co.
Not sure how its in the states
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
COSTS:
The scaffolding will cost me $4100
Removing old plaster $3750
Evening out with cement based mortar $1150
New plaster with mesh screen sandwiched using Mapei planitop HDM maxi $12775
Cleaning and sealing the stone $ 1900
Change orders $5000

Total: $28675.00 is what it costs me to break even.
thats a difference of $25825.00

That is around -47%

I KNOW my competition from other State bids, Talking job after work over a few beers.
and other means.
The will hover around -15-25%

The problem many have percentage bidding is they get afraid of the numbers, that is,
On this job a -20% relates to almost $11000.00. I have discovered talking with other contractors is that they seem to see it as money lost. So they don't do much of P+C+O, etc.
And many after years and years in the trades, still have no idea how you price a job.
They go by the other guy s offer.
of the 28 that will make offers, maybe 4(including me) are worthy opponents.

I get a kick going to the "opening of the bids), I'll see offers of -3.2%, - 1.4% -5.1%, etc..
The last one I won was a 60g work to redo the stone work at a "piazza"
It came out great. Mine was opened at the end and their were 23 bidders.
I won that with a -24.42% bid.
the others before me were all much higher than me. After 21 bids around -4to-12% they opened BilliBobs bid which was -18.7%. he got up and made a scene with a closed fist towards everyone saying "yeah, yeah, Got you's right where I wants you's"
Then they opened mine for last.
He jumped across the table towards me calling me every name in the book, vafunculo stronzo, testa di cazzo, pezzo di merda.
His company is banned from state jobs.
 

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It appears to me at a 47% gross profit opportunity, that the BDog has some very good operating efficiencies, coupled with probably low OH.

Round figures..... if he bid -25%.... (not counting OH) he would still be enjoying almost a 50% mark-up (or a 33% margin).

Maybe the state is actually hurting themselves with their bidding procedures (might look good politically).... and competition is getting fooled by their standard figures....

If you had an operating cost on a job at 28,000.... what would you mark it up to/price it..... doubt it would be the states $54,000.???

EDIT: Wonder how they guard/protect against price fixing if there are really only four competitive bidders? What country is this?

Just guessing......;)
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
San Marino, They don't,
Some have tried but, when their is monies involved, you don't trust nobody.
A few Archii's got caught in bed with a Contractor, The contractor opened another business, and the Archi got moved to another office.
 

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Have Trowel, Do travel
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The problem with being a GC(I am one too) is that you have to rely on the prices from your subs.
Why I hate other GC's is that they get the job, then make you wait forever to get paid, then they take off 10-20% for themselves.
I on the other hand can do(this job as an example) all the works they need done, no subs,

My costs come to that-47% because its all in-house. Other builders costs are way more because they have to sub out. Some at the states price would lose money.
I bitched and moaned here about GC's i think, Most GC's here don't know how to hold a trowel, let alone a hammer, and I am not joking.
They basically call their work in.

I've always said, if the cell towers were to fall, they would go out of business
 
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