[Red Hat]

Hey there, Just joined mainley to see if I could get this question answered. I'm looking at this job and boy is it a mess. The building is shaped like the lot its on...which is at the fork of two roads. So basicly its about 35' across the front, perpendicular wall is about 25' or so and then there is the diagonal wall which is about 45'. Its 20' to 25' tall with a flat roof. It is in a city atmosphere where there is mainly sidewalks on the front and diagonal walls...parking space on the third leg. Its a balloon frame that has been altered on the front wall to make a store front at one point....which is where it really gets messy, The thing is leaning forward from the diagonal wall towards the front 6" over 20/22', the front wall is leaningtowards the street about 3"(this is the wall that was cut into and unprpoperly header of about 25 or 30 years ago) and the whole thing is racked from the crotch of the fork in the road to towards the the 90% cornern. The problem started when they cut the headers in and took off the front sheathing. The foundation looks good. The home owner wants to try to straighten it but doesn't want to demo the thing down to the bones. I've got no room to push/pull the thing from the outside. I can't spring it from the inside with it sheathed...plus the danger of doing that. I can jack the thing up in the front but that isn't going to bring it plum 6". Any ideas or expereinces. Any Engineers out there??????

 

[wasdifferent]

Where are you located?

 

[Rusty Nails]

Can you try using turnbuckles, or come-alongs, with lags throough the shear panel into the studs?

 

[Red Hat]

Where are you located?

I'm out of the seacoast area of New Hampshire but the building is just over the boarder in Mass. Its already been demoed on the inside and all the lathes have been pulled off thus weakening it more. Also the down stairs interior pations have been taken down and the ceiling/second floor height is about 11'. So in a sense its top heavey too. Its been vacant for about 15 years and just needs to fixed or put out of its misery. Its never been condemed but I beleive that it should be at this point. The owner doesn't want to do a full fix and I told them I wasn't going to be responsible for that. To do it right is probably worth more than the building as it stands now. I was just curious what it would take to ratchett it straight. Its one of those things that has been bothering me because I don't what is the best plan of attack. I thought about pulling it from the inside from the top of the wall that is leaning out towards the low point of the oppeset walls foundation...but thats a whole lot of ifs. And no room for error....if it goes its going into the street. I'm out of conventional ideas...that are safe and thats the most important thing. Do you know anyone around here that I could talk too???? I'm not planing on taking this on I know its a bit too big for me. Just curious??

 

[Red Hat]

Yeah I thought about that but I don't trust the studding the plates or the rear wall of the foundation. and the lot is to small to anchor off anywhere. Zero room for errors.

 

[PipeGuy]

25 years ago I worked on a job where we rodded a high rise apartment building together that was splitting down the middle. Allthread was installed within the ceilings from one side of the building to the other, on alternating floors, and drawn down on the face of the building with nuts over plates.

 

[Red Hat]

So you cranked toghter two halves that were falling away from each other??? This structre is intact but severly leaning and racked and out a square,etc. The front wall was shortn'ed when the put the headers in for shop windows the flat roof carried all the snow in the winter and inteior stablizers were removed. Would your method still help me or am I missing something?

 

[PipeGuy]

I have no idea to what extent you might be able to employ this method. I threw it out there as an example of one technique that's been used in an application where the shape of the building was changing and needed to be remedied. I see the benefit of rodding as being a system that requires no additional reinforcement. I suppose if you could place rods in the right places you could potentially torque the building back towards its ideal shape.
I'm curious, how do you know the building wasn't built poorly (plumb / square) to begin with?

 

[Teetorbilt]

I can see the turnbuckles working provided that you have secure fastening points.
What is the foundation?

 

[Red Hat]

I don't. It probably was a little out here there but this building makes you feel out of balance when your stand in it...I'm not jokeing either, almost dizzy. Plus like I said earlier its a balloon frame which has not been common building practice anywhere in quite a while. And its was also done when there was little if any code as a cheap quick way to build a home. Alterantive brick and post an beam were $$$$$ so I'm fairly confident it was resonably plumb, square,etc at the time. But it was never really built with longevity in immediate consuner. Yah know. I've got to take off now but I check back latter Thanks for all the responses. Do you know of were I could get a better idea about rodding?? I can't quite picture what your saying...but I'm open to anything..all ideas are good ideas..

 

[Red Hat]

I just saw the new post. The foundation has been been fixed all along the front and along the pendicular wall somebody made some forms and poured some better walls. Its about 70% soild down there all on the fromt of the building...where everything is leaning. The back wall is masonary stone ( the diaginol wall ) but does not inspire my trust to attempt it. The stone part of the foundation is right where you would want to pull. I can't responed anymore but like I said I'll check back later..Thanks again

 

[Teetorbilt]

Sounds to me like you are already set on demo-ing the building.
It may be able to be saved but it's not going to be cheap. Maybe you should walk away from this one.

 

[wasdifferent]

Red Hat,
You have 2 e-mails.
Best regards,

 

[jproffer]

Maybe you could post your 2 emails for the reading pleasure of the rest of us??? ....maybe??...This is, after all, a forum for all to learn from, not an email exchange site.

 

[PipeGuy]

Thanks jp - I was thinking the same thing. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease Mike? Can we see...huh...can we see?

I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for free information today :cheesygri

 

[wasdifferent]

Red Hat's job is a VERY dangerous one. I have to be careful about the safety of the public. Discussing techniques for doing jobs like this one on a public forum is not a good idea at all, in my opinion. A guy in Massachusetts (just a few minutes from here) was killed about a month ago, doing a job that was probably a lot easier than Red Hat's job.

I was hoping that Red Hat was close enough to me where I could take a drive over and help him out. I'm starting a large job in a couple of days and I just can't get away right now. I sent Red Hat the names of several contractors in his area who specialize in this type of work. Even if they can't do his job for him, they may be able to offer some consulting services, or rent him some equipment. I also set him up with some engineering advice.

Red Hat's job is an easy one for someone who has done a lot of this kind of work. For someone who hasn't, the risks are horrendous. What happens is that all of the equipment gets set up and ready to go, you start to move the structure, and then something TOTALLY UNEXPECTED blind-sides you and gets you killed.

Discussing this stuff on a public forum can have disasterous consequences. Red Hat actually seems to be pretty experienced and pretty sharp. I'm not so much worried about him as I am about the thousands of home owners, and newbie contractors who visit this site. Teetor has shown great wisdom and leadership on this issue in the past, and I intend to follow his lead.

...This is, after all, a forum for all to learn from, not an email exchange site...

jproffer,
The only thing to learn on this one is DON'T DO IT. Get help from someone with a LOT of experience. It all looks easy, and THAT is what gets you killed.
Best wishes,
Mike

 

[wasdifferent]

...I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for free information today :cheesygri...

Have cribbing, will travel.:cheesygri

Set up a good job, I'll fly down there, and we'll have some fun! :Thumbs:

 

[Red Hat]

Have cribbing, will travel.:cheesygri

Set up a good job, I'll fly down there, and we'll have some fun! :Thumbs:

I walked away from it. The place needs to be flattened. The owners wanted to cut to many corners and like I said everybodys safety is more important the bottom dollar. I wasn't going to jeapordize my insurance, license, and my good name on job that I cound't feel good about. But I thank everybody for all the good info and responses.....Thanks to all.... Brad