Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 71 of 71 Posts

·
Dan
Joined
·
4,822 Posts
I believe that in order to use kirdi, one must first put up some boards, say drywall, CBU, etc. Those are indeed fastened to the studs with nails/screws. (same with any bench)
Once you square and plumb those, fasten then down, then you can now apply the kerdi over what you just stuck up.
This is one of the things I try to tell people--in spite of being scolded/yelled at/namecalled/etc. If one uses denshield for a shower, one only has to put up the "walls" once.

And denshield is as "waterproof" as kirdi.



On floors, there are other underlayments that don't require any mechanical fastening, just "glue", same as some others. Foam comes to mind, but I prefer a different one. After this unit, I'm going to go back to using that on the work I do.

To each his/her own. Nothing is "the best" all the time in all situations. Everything has trade-offs.
\
But that's just me. :jester:
that was my slip. i meant ditra. so there is no screwing any board down before hand.
just over the subfloor with thinset under it

the nice thing about the kerdi installs i have seen is that you can use drywall, or paperless drywall for the whole bathroom and then just kerdi where the tile is going, no more running drywall around where the tile is going to leave room for tile backer board.
that is what makes alot of sense and saves time putting up bigger sheets of drywall
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,858 Posts
that was my slip. i meant ditra. so there is no screwing any board down before hand.
just over the subfloor with thinset under it
There are other substrates that not only dont' require mechanical fastening (screws/nails), but don't require you to mix thinset for it....a different thinset that you'll be using to set, btw.....

But what the hey, I always carry at least two different kinds of thinset....

the nice thing about the kerdi installs i have seen is that you can use drywall
So was there not a shower there to begin with?
If it's new construction, why put up drywall, then cover it with something to tile it? Why not just use denshield if you want waterproof? Or if you don't need to sell that BS to a homeowner, just use standard CBU?
Or easyboard? Or the new durock?

Put down that $80 plastic pan, hang your rock and tile away.
If they want "custom" work (shape/size), then (if you have the skills/knowledge) float the pan, paint on some hydroban/quadefense and go.

Sorry there's not a hat or some Marketing Machine, complete with legions of bot drones out there to back you on this, but really, it does work and work well........................

no more running drywall around where the tile is going to leave room for tile backer board. that is what makes alot of sense and saves time putting up bigger sheets of drywall
I guess I've never had a problem with the drywall/rock transition.

Aren't most showers/tubs in an alcove anyway?
Oh well, do whatever you need to to get to where you want to be....... ;)
 

·
Dan
Joined
·
4,822 Posts
most of my bathroom remodels require us to gut the walls. that's what clients want, it's just easier that way. i am all for the paperless drywall from GP and then i'll try to kerdi the tub/shower area.

name me one product other than Ditra that allows you to uncouple from the subfloor and keep the tile from cracking or grout from cracking that doesn't require fasteners, once you screw it down, you are moving with the subfloor and could be potential for cracking down the road.

i don't know of any other product like ditra where you cut it, and thinset it down, and can immediately tile right over it.

i've used hardie for years but that is coming to an end. no more of that for me unless i need to build it up first.

also, the DITRA XL adds more height incase you do need to be higher to meet the adjacent floor
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,858 Posts
I was talking about easyboard, it is foam and is junk.
I've not used it.
Have there been a lot of failures using it?
Any?

I have tiled showers using denshield but, the nail heads and seems always worried me.
I waterproof the seams and 90s, so I just daub some redgard/aquadefense on the nailheads anyway. Don't have to, but I do.

It does hold up well to sitting outside, I have had a piece in my back yard for over a year.
:D
Isn't there a "purple rock" that's exterior grade? EXP or something?
It's used on commercial jobs and may be takeing the place of the yellow rock used in commercial exteriors......

I saw that rolled foam mat before.
It's expensive, but if the homeowner is footing the bill, it'd be a good sale.
But then again, w/homeowner work, it's all about the sizzle of the sale to the homeowner. That's where a lot of people (Americans anyway) can make their sale. What sux is laying it down flat.

I'd check out other methods/materials. Ya might have to go to other boards though as my experience over the last 5 years is the orange crush, truly does. Gotten a lot better at the jb forum tho.....int he last twoyears anyway.

Hockey game over, sat nite....off I go.

Check out other stuff.
Contact manufactures/distributors. They'll usually give you stuff for free to try.
 

·
Carpe Diem
Joined
·
20,742 Posts
There are pluses and minuses to all backer boards.

Some are heavy. Some are foam. Some are grey. Some are blue. Some are cement. Some are fiberglass.

We get that.

It depends on what your expectations are. It depends on what the logistics to your site are. It depends on what the budget is.

There is no one best backer board.

If you want to use any of them, including the orange stuff, go right ahead.

I feel this thread has run its course. Unless anyone has something NEW to bring up, let it go quietly away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,858 Posts
most of my bathroom remodels require us to gut the walls.
That's what I'm talking about. If you have to remove something down to the studs, then put something back up, then put something up over what you just put up before you can tile, why not just put up denshield "drywall" and after you stick it up, start tiling?
Shlooter found he wisdom/sense in this and now they offer their orange denshield board. That's now all the rage/style of the moment with their followers. What's the meaningful difference between shlooters denshield board and denshield? Nothing. May cost more and get an orange hat tho. ;)

i am all for the paperless drywall from GP and then i'll try to kerdi the tub/shower area.
Kewl. Your job, so have at it. :thumbsup:
I won't go around telling people your job "will fail" or similar BS.
If it works and that's what you like, then by all means, do it.

name me one product other than Ditra that allows you to uncouple from the subfloor and keep the tile from cracking or grout from cracking
Yahoo search "anti-fracture membrane".

But like I've said, that whole "uncoupling" sales pitch is nothing but marketing BS that people can use on homeowners. It's a crock.
It isn't?

Then I've not familiar with the millions of SF of floors that have been set on CBU that failed. Care to share? I'll help ya--check out the tile/stone trade publications, trade websites, etc. All these "failures" due to not being able to "uncouple" from the floor should be readily available to cut and paste here.
I look forward to seeing what you've found. Who knows, it may just save us all from our constant failures at not using shlooter stuff..... ;)

BTW, what were they using before deetra was manufactured for sale again? And no, not all floors were floated, be they floating or bonded.
One may be surprised at just how many floors were and still are put down over concrete. I walked into a new Kohl's dept store yesterday and their tile was really, really nice, tho they needed to profile the edges they cut over the joints in the slab.
Anyway...

that doesn't require fasteners
Do a yahoo search of "anti-fracture membrane" and you'll see a few pages of them.

once you screw it down, you are moving with the subfloor and could be potential for cracking down the road.
Like I've always said, deetra is a "severe duty anti-fracture membrane".
If not, why all the concern about needing to separate the tile from the floor with the shlooterites?
Just may be me, but I like to have a solid subfloor before I set anything.
I'd imagine the tca spec's are the same for all tile/stone?
And deetra's subfloor differs from other spec's how? From what I recall, everything is the same. So if a CBU won't crack, deetra won't crack, no?

i don't know of any other product like ditra where you cut it, and thinset it down, and can immediately tile right over it.
Bummer for you.

i've used hardie for years but that is coming to an end. no more of that for me unless i need to build it up first.
If that's the way you want to roll, then have at it.

also, the DITRA XL adds more height incase you do need to be higher to meet the adjacent floor
If that's what you do, then have at it.
 

·
Dan
Joined
·
4,822 Posts
ok bud. for the FACTS. I have stated that all of my tile floors have been set on a hardie or durock surface. I have started to read up on the schluter system and I believe that its a better faster way of doing it. It's one thing to go back a few years later and see no cracks but what about 10 or 15 or 20 years later, will the tile floor set over cement backerboard on the subfloor still be ok or will the grout be cracked in spots or possibly tiles?

i'm not here to argue, you do what you want to do. I don't care for your attitude as I have not been on here pushing for everyone to use schluter. I am simply saying I'm interested in using it on my next tile project. I am a renovator. I don't tile for a living but I am fully capable of doing most of my tile jobs myself because it's something I enjoy doing instead of hiring a sub for it.

I believe we are talking about the same thing when you use densshield. it's just easier to use Dense Armor and do the whole room in that. and lay out your tile where you need to. I simply want to try and use the kerdi on a shower wall if it saves me time and it's a better overall system than just using say hardie backer and tiling over it. like angus has stated in these threads there are many ways of doing things, not one wrong or one right way for everyone. you just have a problem with someone doing something other than the way you do it.
that's not my problem.

this thread has run it's course and should just be closed down. i'm not a person that forces anyone to use schluter because it's totally new to me and i look forward to using it in the future. having said that, no one has called me back for the many tile jobs I did over hardie board for showers or floors. some may fail, some might not. i'm not sure. i am all for finding new and proven methods of doing our jobs better and providing a higher quality for the long term for anyone that might own that house.
 
61 - 71 of 71 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top