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Dan
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I still don't see how a product that appears like drywall can be used on a floor to walk on. i won't trust it. not to say it's wrong, I just don't use it

I have used hardie backer on many jobs and never had an issue, but from here on out, i'll be using Ditra on floors and kerdi on walls.

do you guys ever put backboard down over he subfloor for height or if it's in bad shape, then ditra? Often times the subfloors aren't in the best shape so something has to be put over them, I can't imagine it would be good to put ditra over a subfloor that is weakened but not necessarily rotted to be replaced.
 

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Carpe Diem
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I still don't see how a product that appears like drywall can be used on a floor to walk on. i won't trust it. not to say it's wrong, I just don't use it

I have used hardie backer on many jobs and never had an issue, but from here on out, i'll be using Ditra on floors and kerdi on walls.

do you guys ever put backboard down over he subfloor for height or if it's in bad shape, then ditra? Often times the subfloors aren't in the best shape so something has to be put over them, I can't imagine it would be good to put ditra over a subfloor that is weakened but not necessarily rotted to be replaced.

You're better off using EGP.

Yeah, DensShield for a floor....can't use whatever type of tile/stone you want on top. Just like another underlayment mentioned here.
 

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You must not have met a few of the tile installers on this very site.
Um...errrr......OK. I think that's supposed to mean something, but I have no idea.

No I've not met any of the installers that visit this internet site.
Does that have anything to do with anything? If so, please let me know so I can act according to your protocol.

I use urethane.
Then that's good. Your caulk will outlast any other mfg warranties of any other material you use, no?
Why not just say "I guarantee the job for 20 years", then use urethane caulk and porcelain over any underlayment? Better and longer warranty than the "lifetime" of "5 years" by ditra/kerdi.

I warranty all tile work a minimum of 10 years. You wouldn't understand. :rolleyes:
So you only plan on living "a lifetime" "of 10 years"?
Man, sorry. I figure I'll live another 15....mebbe. Got any caulk? ;)

I imagine it was wonderful, just stating kerdi/ditra over and over and over again on each and every thread when not starting kerdi/ditra threads all by themselves. (like I read when I first came here). Heck, even starting a thread about some kerdi product coming sometime in the future.....
So, what's a person to do when an "outsider" comes into a person's home and dare say such things?

Have you figured out I really don't care what people's individual preferences are? I don't. But I do care when people are reading/asking and getting the same BS over and over and over again. It's not an "information thing"--it turns into an echo chamber, a self fulfilling prophecy of circular logic. "Groupthink" is a word I think comes to mind.

Example: what's the waterproofing difference between kerdiboard and denshield again? :laughing:
And if there is none--which there isn't--then shouldn't one use kerdi over kerdiboard? :laughing:

There are other products out there to use. Some mentioned on this board and others. Some not mentioned anywhere I've read, but people use.

Unlike some folks, I have nothing personal here. When I get on the net, this is just one place I stop and none too frequently. I have no vested interest here. My identity isn't linked to this section of this internet site.
I don't care....and the vested interests here (and some other boards) don't get that because they dearly do...for some (personal?) reason(s).....................

When I do tile/stone other than for a favor/my fix/flip, it's almost always commercial, so I use what I'm given and paid by the SF. That's a wonderful experience because I use a lot of different things in a lot of different situations. I don't have to make sales pitches to anyone. I just show up and float/install. The faster I work the more money I make.

Here ya go..... :notworthy
 

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Often times the subfloors aren't in the best shape so something has to be put over them,
the subfloor to tile/stone is like the framing/foundation is to a house.
If it's not in good shape, fix it first, then build upon it. There's a reason for the phrase 'rock solid' and one only need to look back in history. Interesting stuff. I've always said there's a reason why italians favor mud/mason stuff and of you look at the middle east/persian tile/stonework, you'll see it's centuries old also. Heck, I'd bet some of that stuff is nearly 2,000 years old and still there.

The tile/stone that has lasted for centuries is on solid foundation.
Used to be that no one would gurantee their work unless the concrete was shotblasted, per tca specs.

Fix beneath then build upon a good, solid foundation.
 

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Carpe Diem
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No, not caulk....grout. Maybe you haven't heard of that either.

Seriously, why I got crowned the schluter-pusher is beyond me. Really, go back and count how many times I have actually brought up Ditra or Kerdi without being asked first.

What I've been doing is discrediting your BS about Schluter.

Maybe you don't understand the meaning of the underlined word; "MINIMUM". A veteran tile setter like yourself :)laughing:) would surely know each situation is different. I don't have 1 way of doing anything. Why would I have only 1 way to warranty too? :rolleyes:


The most "discrediting" is being done by you....over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over again. Stop your crap and this place can get back to normal.


I have no vested interest here. My identity isn't linked to this section of this internet site. I don't care
You may not have any vested interest in this site, but others do. Whether it's for educational purposes or business purposes, it doesn't really matter. Some people use this site as more than a personal playground to stir things up. If you don't take this place seriously, leave.
 

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Dan
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the subfloor to tile/stone is like the framing/foundation is to a house.
If it's not in good shape, fix it first, then build upon it. There's a reason for the phrase 'rock solid' and one only need to look back in history. Interesting stuff. I've always said there's a reason why italians favor mud/mason stuff and of you look at the middle east/persian tile/stonework, you'll see it's centuries old also. Heck, I'd bet some of that stuff is nearly 2,000 years old and still there.

The tile/stone that has lasted for centuries is on solid foundation.
Used to be that no one would gurantee their work unless the concrete was shotblasted, per tca specs.

Fix beneath then build upon a good, solid foundation.
I realize that and do fix bad subfloors and build them strong. what i meant was imperfections in the actual surface, and what guys are putting Ditra over. Sometimes a subfloor can be sturdy and have a few little gouges or imperfections in it, doesn't mean it's not strong enough.
 

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Carpe Diem
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I realize that and do fix bad subfloors and build them strong. what i meant was imperfections in the actual surface, and what guys are putting Ditra over. Sometimes a subfloor can be sturdy and have a few little gouges or imperfections in it, doesn't mean it's not strong enough.
When you lay Ditra over any surface, you burn the thinset in before troweling your ridges. That will cover any small imperfections. If anything is larger to the point of causing a divot under the Ditra, use a floor patching compound first. I like to always have a bag of RS thinset on me. If the "imperfections" are not too large, you could prefill with a RS thinset & let set before laying the Ditra.

I'm simply saying, there's no need to put CBU down and then Ditra.

If over framing with the correct deflection, you can use Ditra directly over 3/4" T&G with up to 19.2" OC joist spacing. Personally, if spanning more than 16" OC, I'd like to add an additional layer of 1/2" EGP.
 

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Seriously, why I got crowned the schluter-pusher is beyond me.
When I came here, I stopped by your section here and every thread you pushed the shlooter material (mainly kirdy) with one post you started all by your lonesome about the soon to come orange denshield...that will soon come out from shlooter.

I don't have the interest in you/your products to do any searches, post counts, etc. Like the main orange forum. I don't have the interest to search out recent posts. I've been there off and on for a handful of years. I know what I see and don't have any reason to lie. Seriously.

You know by now, full well,
and attributing all sorts of things to others.....real, perceived and made up.

You may not have any vested interest in this site, but others do. Whether it's for educational purposes or business purposes, it doesn't really matter.
You are correct in that, but more correct than is your usual.

I go do different sites and check them out, mostly reading, seeing which parts do things in differently, use different materials, etc. Long time ago, I worked with a couple of polish guys and I didn't know they never used chalkboxes in their country. So that got me interested in how other people do things in other countries (cultural/suppliers/products). That's why I like reading what the frostbacks do/use as they're just up nort, eh?

One thing I've found is on tile boards, there's an almost personal drive, fixation, obsession to push the shlooter products down people's throats and up their you know what. I don't know of any other trades where there's such a thing. Like I said, "makes me wonder what these same people pushed before kirdi?" Or any other of the stuff.

There are other products out there to use and not all are sold at homedepot/lowes/dal. Come to think of it, daaal doesn't even sell this one we used and is really, really nice. The foam products are also very nice, but they need to resolve the problem unrolling/laying them down and they're spensive for my dime.
 

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I eat sawdust.
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3,975 Posts
I still don't see how a product that appears like drywall can be used on a floor to walk on. i won't trust it. not to say it's wrong, I just don't use it

I have used hardie backer on many jobs and never had an issue, but from here on out, i'll be using Ditra on floors and kerdi on walls.

do you guys ever put backboard down over he subfloor for height or if it's in bad shape, then ditra? Often times the subfloors aren't in the best shape so something has to be put over them, I can't imagine it would be good to put ditra over a subfloor that is weakened but not necessarily rotted to be replaced.
I use this http://www.greeneboard.com/.

but if a subfloor needs to be replaced, replace it.
 

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i'm all for using kerdi, it may cost more, but it looks like it would go down a lot faster than using any type of board where you have to screw it down and thinset under it as well. that's time consuming.
I believe that in order to use kirdi, one must first put up some boards, say drywall, CBU, etc. Those are indeed fastened to the studs with nails/screws. (same with any bench)
Once you square and plumb those, fasten then down, then you can now apply the kerdi over what you just stuck up.
This is one of the things I try to tell people--in spite of being scolded/yelled at/namecalled/etc. If one uses denshield for a shower, one only has to put up the "walls" once.

And denshield is as "waterproof" as kirdi.

The proprietary construction of DensShield Tile Backer integrates a moisture-resistant core with fiberglass mats and a unique heat-cured acrylic coating.
http://www.gp.com/build/product.aspx?pid=4684
On floors, there are other underlayments that don't require any mechanical fastening, just "glue", same as some others. Foam comes to mind, but I prefer a different one. After this unit, I'm going to go back to using that on the work I do.

To each his/her own. Nothing is "the best" all the time in all situations. Everything has trade-offs.

But that's just me. :jester:
 

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That's interesting stuff. They put magnesium chloride on the icy roads in CO.
Be interesting to see how this fares as i believe the whole "green" thing is a lot of hype and a relative very few can/will invest their money into being called 'green' relative to other products out there. But the "green" thing can work if the big hand of government takes control of that market (regulation, taxes, etc.) thereby forcing everyone to be "green" by their standards.

Back to subject--I think "foam" will be the future in a few different variations. OK, it's here now. Some have been here for a very very long time. Anyway, if you look at it, deetra can be looked upon as a sort of "foam" due to there being "air pockets" in it. Other foams you mash in the mud and the mud and "fibers" mix up, making the substrate. "foam" particles" I believe are embedded into some CBUs. I've never used it, but I believe wedi is also a foam. Flexible foams for floors are the future IMO. Like I said, there are other products out there and a few that much to my surprise never get mentioned on "professional tile" boards. I don't mind that though as I don't ever want to be "me and 100 others" in my work.
 

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Carpe Diem
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I thought one still needed to put some sort of liquid water proofing over denshield, on shower walls and such.
To make it completely waterproof, you need to cover the seams and screw holes. Actually, on its own, DensShield has a lower perm rating than Kerdi and needs the addition of non modified thinset to be considered waterproof.

I'm talking about very small measurements here but the facts are what they are.

DensShield is just another way to deal with a tub surround/shower.
 

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Foam, like ez-board, or however it is spelled?
Easymat.
http://www.custombuildingproducts.c...terproofingAntiFractureMembranes/easymat.aspx

I've used on a couple of floors for a house cause we had a HD commercial account. ;) I liked it once it was down. The problem is getting it down easy. If they could put this on top of laticrete's 150 bottom, it'd be kick butt. One could pick up a "whole roll" of substrate, walk up a few flights of stairs with it, cut it w/a scissors, etc. Where have I heard that before?.... ;)
Oh, and ya don't have to mix thinset to lay either one, carrying that up three flights of stairs, etc.

That stuff looks like crap.
Would you like a different color to make it more appealing to you? :rolleyes:
Good thing it's buried under tile/stone then....of any size.......
But I guess you're into reading, so:

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6781.pdf

I think what's going on is most of my experience is in "commercial" jobs and most internet tile people are residential, meaning they do stuff for homeowners. That may be why so much emphasis is placed upon the sizzle of the sale, marketing, etc.

For shops that get the work on a homeowners unit, they use mexicans, so....I'll just leave that one alone.........................................

I thought one still needed to put some sort of liquid water proofing over denshield, on shower walls and such.
Nope. 100 percent wrong.
Feel like you've been treated like a mushroom yet?

Oh, and you don't even need to put "waterproofing" over CBU walls unless it's a steam unit.
Feel like you've been duped yet?
I would, but that's just me....

There's such a rabid "following" from the orange crowd, they tend to push out/keep out other mindsets/manners.

So I guess this segment of this board has "defended" against "honest and truthful information". Doesn't that suck? I usually get pissed when people prevent me from finding out about other things, but that's just me.

Go to your local HD/lowes and pick up a piece of it (densguard/denshield).
Take it home and play with it. Stick it on some sawhorses and pour water on it. Put plumber's putty around it so it'll be a lake. Let it sit there and come back and check on it as often as you like. See for yourself what happens.

Then cut it in half, put it on a piece of plywood on the same sawhorses, mud and tape the seams as you would. Then brush on a layer of 39/pail redgard/aquadefense. Do the plumber's putty thing and dump some water on it, forming a lake. Come and go again over time and see what happens.
Find out for yourself.

Here's another one, stolen from the local mapei rep.
Take a cardboard box of your choosing. Then take that 39/pail of aquadefense (lowes) and paint the inside. Once it's dried, fill it full of water. Put a duck in it like the mapei rep did (or ice and water bottles like shlooterites do w/their denshield--I mean kirdiboard).

Let your duck float around in the aquadenfense coated shoebox for as long as you want. Inform yourself what does/doesn't happen.
 
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