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Fentoozler
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm re-doing this bathroom and have a couple of questions....

I did a search, but not wanting to read every related post and/or hijack anothers thread....starting a new thread.

Bath has been gutted to studs....a variety of studs :blink:
Exterior wall[south] is 2x4 ..will be expanded to a double 2x4 thickness
Interior wet wall [west] is 2x6...
Interior wall [north] is 2x4...
Interior wall [east] is 2x4...laid on edge...1 1/2" ~ WTF ???:furious:

The tub will along the west, south and east walls.
Tub/shower area will be completely tiled.

The questions:
On this exterior wall that will be tiled...

- Insulation...craftfaced with a VB or not?

Ceiling above tub/shower area will need a soffit to allow EF ductwork.
Portions of the roof are exposed in this area.
Insulation is a must, IMHO.

- Insulation...craftfaced with a VB or not?


The tub/shower area will be totally tiled, - from my reading, DenShield seems to be the product of choice for this application....and has VB characteristics.


........

Tile will wrap the rest of the room to a height of 48" +/-.
Green, purple or plain for the sheetrock?

I've read [Thanks Greg Di and TomR] that the green is basically useless.
Purple or plain?

The bath is rather small, [5x8 w/o deduction for tub]....using 2 different products would probably result in excess waste/cost....in the long run cheaper to use 1 product ~ even if that product is more expensive.
True?

***********

Floor to be tiled.
Is DenShield a suitable material for the tile?
Stick with the standard CBU?
 

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Curmudgeon
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11,706 Posts
Use unfaced friction fit batts
with 4mil visqueen vapor barrier.
DensArmor drywall, and setting compound
i.e. DuraBond, rather than pre-mix
drywall compound.

IMO, Durok or Hardie is better
material for floors.
 

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Fentoozler
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5,623 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I asked about the VB and DS specifically because, the GP website indicates DS has a moisture barrier....and a barrier should not added.
 

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Carpe Diem
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20,742 Posts
The tub will along the west, south and east walls.
Tub/shower area will be completely tiled.

The questions:
On this exterior wall that will be tiled...

- Insulation...craftfaced with a VB or not?

The tub/shower area will be totally tiled, - from my reading, DenShield seems to be the product of choice for this application....and has VB characteristics.

The bath is rather small, [5x8 w/o deduction for tub]....using 2 different products would probably result in excess waste/cost....in the long run cheaper to use 1 product ~ even if that product is more expensive.
True?

Floor to be tiled.
Is DenShield a suitable material for the tile?
Stick with the standard CBU?
You could use DensArmor for all walls and ceilings. Just use Kerdi in the wet areas to tiled. No faced batts necessary then.

For the floor add a layer of EGP and Ditra. Kerdi-Band the seams.

Totally waterproof bathroom!
 

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Curmudgeon
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11,706 Posts
I'm old fashioned (surprise?), I use
Durock in the showers and surrounds.
 

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Registered
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Celtic no vapor barrier behing tiled areas in wet locations, remaining can have. You want to use Dense Shield not Dens Armor for tile. I use purple for the remaining areas. 5/8" on ceiling for 16" o/c or 1/2" if 12"centers.
 

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Carpe Diem
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Celtic no vapor barrier behing tiled areas in wet locations, remaining can have. You want to use Dense Shield not Dens Armor for tile. I use purple for the remaining areas. 5/8" on ceiling for 16" o/c or 1/2" if 12"centers.
If you use Kerdi, why can't you use DensArmor in wet areas? What do you use to waterproof wet areas then?
And why not use DensArmor instead of purple? Purple has paper, DensArmor doesn't. Paper = food for mold.
 

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Fentoozler
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It may be an improvement over the various other substrates ~ but my tiles guys have never used these membranes systems.

IMHO, it would be best to at least use a material they are familiar with... DS is what they mentioned.
 

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Fentoozler
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5,623 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Celtic no vapor barrier behing tiled areas in wet locations, remaining can have.
The only exterior areas is the south wall and a small portion of the roof.....is a VB even necessary on interior walls?


You want to use Dense Shield not Dens Armor for tile. I use purple for the remaining areas. 5/8" on ceiling for 16" o/c or 1/2" if 12"centers.
That is generally my plan ~ unless there is reason [personal experience, preferences, codes?] not to.
 

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I like Green things
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23,068 Posts
The purple board is easier to finish than the densarmor, for me at least, I just had a few issues with the fiberglass matting.

No vapor barrior, plastic, behind denshield.

I agree with Angus, kerdi over the deshield is totally bullet proof. Several times I have had to silicone the edges together and red guard the nail heads and seems.

I shouldn't do this but, another option for the shower surround is a solid suface material. Corian, avonite, lg.....
Did several of those this year, pretty much bullet proof.
 

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The only exterior areas is the south wall and a small portion of the roof.....is a VB even necessary on interior walls?
Vapor barrier on the warm side are the rules for us. Especially in a damp enviorment. Add a fan with a humidistat to run. Ideally they run long enough to clear the moisture. You dont put vapor retarder in tiled areas because the tile acts as a barrier. Double barriers trap moisture.


That is generally my plan ~ unless there is reason [personal experience, preferences, codes?] not to.
You could probably use anything behind Kerdi since it decouples the two materials. I myself am less familar with the Kerdi system but should learn since it may become an industry standard. More time and more expense. The cement board requires waterproofing behind the board or a redguard protective on the surface.
Dens shield is sealed at the surface just by silicone at all joints, top, bottom, sides and penetrations Before tiling! Just dont over tool the joint because that weakens the bond for tile. You want to fill the gap only.
 

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If you use Kerdi, why can't you use DensArmor in wet areas? What do you use to waterproof wet areas then?
And why not use DensArmor instead of purple? Purple has paper, DensArmor doesn't. Paper = food for mold.
Purple is actually called XP mold resistant drywall. Look it up. They chemically treat the paper. I believe DensARMOR is supierior but it does cost more and requires more finishing. Its not must.
 

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Carpe Diem
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I won't argue the point about purple XP board. If it is truly mold resistant, fine. However, using paper and then treating it with chemicals or just using wallboard without paper seems like a no brainer to me. And I know first hand, it takes no extra prep work to finish off DensArmor. Prime & paint. Done.

It may be an improvement over the various other substrates ~ but my tiles guys have never used these membranes systems
Maybe you should get new tile guys. Schluter products have been around since the 80's. Any tile setter that doesn't waterproof a wet location is plain irresponsible. There's no excuse for not educating one's self on new procedures. Waterproofing is not just an improvement, it's a necessary method to stop mold and rot.

You do not use a vapor barrier behind Kerdi or other membranes. They are a vapor barrier and if you use an additional one behind them, you'll create a moisture sandwich.

You want a full-proof and easy way to construct a bathroom, use DensArmor, Kerdi and Kerdi-band with non-faced batts for insulation. What's easier than using only 1 type of wall material? For the floor, make sure it will structurally handle your tile installation (deflection), add exterior-glue plywood and then Ditra. Install a proper ventilation system.

That bathroom will stay mold and rot proof for a long-long time.
 

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Curmudgeon
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11,706 Posts
The purple board is easier to finish than the densarmor, for me at least, I just had a few issues with the fiberglass matting.....
I found the trick is to prime
with oil (CoverStain) and
½" nap roller.
Build your own texture to hide
their texture.
It even looks pretty damn nice
with semi gloss.
 

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Carpe Diem
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20,742 Posts
I found the trick is to prime
with oil (CoverStain) and
½" nap roller.
Build your own texture to hide
their texture.
It even looks pretty damn nice
with semi gloss.

We've had great results using SW Preprite Problock latex primer with a 1/2" nap. Finish with 2 coats of SW Duration or Bath paint also with a 1/2" nap. We've had a few where we only replaced parts of the walls and when finished, you cannot tell the difference between old or new finish.
 

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bathroom guru
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1,348 Posts
I won't argue the point about purple XP board. If it is truly mold resistant, fine. However, using paper and then treating it with chemicals or just using wallboard without paper seems like a no brainer to me. And I know first hand, it takes no extra prep work to finish off DensArmor. Prime & paint. Done.



Maybe you should get new tile guys. Schluter products have been around since the 80's. Any tile setter that doesn't waterproof a wet location is plain irresponsible. There's no excuse for not educating one's self on new procedures. Waterproofing is not just an improvement, it's a necessary method to stop mold and rot.

You do not use a vapor barrier behind Kerdi or other membranes. They are a vapor barrier and if you use an additional one behind them, you'll create a moisture sandwich.

You want a full-proof and easy way to construct a bathroom, use DensArmor, Kerdi and Kerdi-band with non-faced batts for insulation. What's easier than using only 1 type of wall material? For the floor, make sure it will structurally handle your tile installation (deflection), add exterior-glue plywood and then Ditra. Install a proper ventilation system.

That bathroom will stay mold and rot proof for a long-long time.

Angus, as usual, is bang on with his procedure. The one thing we do differently is too still install 1/2" concrete board in the shower or tub area - then kerdi, then tile, the use epoxy grout to finish it off.

On one other note, I have been using Panasonic exhaust fans for the last 4 years and they are outstanding! Definately the best quality fan I have seen on the market. They also provide a lot of information on the proper way to install the exhaust vent, something that is overlooked quite often.
I have seen so many fans installed with a roof vent directly above. Its hard to create a good run in this case.
 

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Carpe Diem
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20,742 Posts
On one other note, I have been using Panasonic exhaust fans for the last 4 years and they are outstanding! Definately the best quality fan I have seen on the market. They also provide a lot of information on the proper way to install the exhaust vent, something that is overlooked quite often.
Yes, we have used Panasonic fans too. We recently switched to Nutone with the built-in humidistat. This is simply because we cannot get customers to actually use the fan all the time. This way, it goes on for them. Sucks but it seems the only way to get people to use them.
However, I would have no issues using a Panasonic fan.
 
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