Of the coating my favorite is properly applied Thoroseal (two coats with an additive - Acryl 60).

The house has basic water problems with a cheap patch-job approach that has proven to not be adequate.

Remember - a surface coating is only a band-aid and will not work unless other factors are correct.

The house should have gutters, 10' downspout extension and positve drainage away from the house.

 

Is there another method that you would recommend for this situation?

 

It should have been buit with drain tile on all four walls (inside outside or both).

If you want a dry basement, could install drain tile in addition to sealing the walls and sealing the floor/wall joint (open the joint and pack it with hydraulic cement).

If you just apply a coating, there is no guarantee the basement will be dry, but it certainly will not be as wet as it was.

 

Mat,

You don't say what the foundation is built of?

What shape the walls are in?

Is there anything on the walls already?

What shape the floor is in?

You said they have gotten water 3 times but is the basement damp or wet?

As concrete said, what are the conditions around the outside of the house?

A picture of the layout and conditions would go a long way in helping answer you?

 

Matty,

I work i nthe waterproofing industry. If a B-Dr system was installed - it comes with a warranty. Contact B-Dry (or the homeowner) to find who instaleld the product, and get them out there for a service call.

Typically I do not recommend any type of waterproofing paint to apply to the walls. All that will is trap the water behind (or worse if it's a block wall, inside) the wall.. which will break down eventually... can lead to structural wall repairs, etc.

But, since that's not your concern... either or will work as a temporary band-aid.

 

Damion,

If I can quickly piggy-back this thread:

If a concrete basement on a new house is constantly getting damp walls, shows efflorescence, but appears to have proper exterior drainage.. what do you do?

Sorry to butt in!

~Matt

 

Hey Matt,

If this is the case... the outside drainage is most likely either:

• Installed improperly
• Clogged with Silt/settiment
• Crushed during the backfill process

I'd be willing to vet that if you drileld a small hole into one of the blocks near the bottom (where you see the efflorescence), water would pour out.

I'd recommend an interior drain tile system. You can do something like what is done on the outside, and run it to a sump pump. I worked with the basement systems line of products (www.basementsystems.com). Pip sits on top of the footer instead of besdie it (in the mud where it can clog). Plus installatino is typicalyl easier. Obviously, you have to be a licenced installer - so you'd have to get someone to do it.

 

The basement is poured concrete. It could use a dehumidifier but it isn't damp or wet. The walls look OK but some of them had panelling installed as it was a finished basement with wall to wall carpet before the water came. The carpet is now removed but there is some old tile on most of the floor, but I believe the water is coming from the floor not the walls.

There are normal downspouts (no extensions) around the foundation. I can take some pictures and post them if you think that will help.

When they contracted b-dry they sent a salesman out who only gave them an estimate for finishing the perimeter.

Thanks for the help,

Matt

 

Matty,

Pictures could help a lot.

 

Brey,

you say "damp walls" is that all they ever get?

How new is the new house?

Where in the country are you? What is your climate like? What is the soil like?

 

Normal downspouts are as bad as or worse than no gutters. They just collect water and dump it close to the house where the "junk" backfill was dumped.

Doing one wall of a basement is not much better than doing nothing. It only changes where the water will come in.

The excavator digs a hole for a swimming pool. The builder hires a mason contractor to build a basement in it. He then builds a pretty house to sell. The buyer does not relize he is living is an inside-out swimming pool.

You have to keep as much water out of the excavation area that is about 5-10 feet beyond the walls plus the excavators access ramp that wil funnel water into the hole for years since good backfill and compaction is rare.

Downspout extensions (10') help get the roof water away from the house. This is cheap and easy to do. After that, drain tile (inside or outside the footing) is the best way to reduce the hydrostatic pressure on the walls AND under the slab.

 

Downspouts are not the culprit here. Typically, you would see the damp spots start at the top of the wall and spread out almost liek a Christmas tree.

There are two possible culprits here.

The area you are mentioning where the footer, floor, and wall come together - the cove area. It's a natural seam where water can come in.

The second culprit is hydrostatic pressure. Water is self leveling. Here's some good info on the basement systems website - http://www.basementsystems.com/learning_center/basement/clay_bowl_effect.php

An interior system is your best bet.

You made one statement that confuses me. you said there is a B-Dry system against one wall.. but also said the sales rep only quoted a full perimeter option. Which one?

 

DamionR,

Sorry for the confusion. The B-dry system is against the back wall. I think the previous owners had trouble with water coming in the bulkhead area.

The B-Dry salesman was writing up an estimate to have the rest of the perimeter done.

 

I see. A system along those lines would be the best solution. You have water problems from either hydrostatic pressure (coming up through the floor).... and/or water comign in at the cove area. The B-Dry systems apparently works. Basement Systems has a great product I liekd called Waterguard. You can call install an interior draintile system yourself if that is somethign you are capable of doing.

 

Matt -

It sounds like you are not planning on finishing the basement, but just want to waterproof it without full-fledged construction. This involves several steps that are not major projects:

1. Make sure you have done everything out side your house, including 10' extensions, to get the surface water away. If the exposed extensions are annoying, you can locate pop-up bubblers away from the house. I have had great luck with mine.

2. Open the joint (grinder or chisel) between the floor and the wall. This gap occurs when the concrete shrinks and your concrete finished shrinking years ago. Force hyraulic cement (a generic product) into the joint and allow it to expand and set. The surface does not have to be dry and the material expands and sets rather quickly. It is has been the standard material used for plugging cracks in concrete for many years.

3. Coat the walls with one or two coats of Thoroseal. Thoroseal has been a standard material used for over 50 years in the waterproofing, repair and restoration of concrete structures. Is has a long history of performance on residential, commercial, industrial and civil (dams, etc.). It is not a paint!. It is available in bags and is mixed with water following the diections and timing carefully. It is applied to a damp wall to insure a good bond. An additive (Acryl 60) can be added for increased properties.

It is obvious the B-Dry system on one wall only moved the point of leakage since it really does not substantially reduce the hydrostatic pressure on the walls and slab.

If you really want a dry basement for finishing, you should install drain tile with a filter fabric and gravel/sand at or below the bottom of the footing. You can do it yourself, but it is hard, messy work. I did it by renting a masonry saw for a few hours and did a lot of work on a few weekends. If you really want to get rid of the water you have to go deep and not go with a partial system like D-Dry or Waterguard that does not draw water away from the exterior of the wall.

 

Foam Injections

I live an a climate that has extreme changes in weather (Alberta). The freeze thaw cycle is the most common reason for cracks to form in foundations, not saying hydrostaic presure is not reason. We have gone through a learning curve for the past 15 years when comes to repairing cracks. We started with expanding grout, then low pressure epoxy injections now urethane foam injections. The foam injections are more flexible then the two others and will flex with the slight foundation movement. The urethane reacts with moisture and expands in the the crack. The best is still a exterior repair with digging and installation of a membrane.:thumbsup:

 

I am always amazed at how much people will spend at water proofing their basement when 95% of time they just had proper working gutters and downspouts along with positive landscape grading they would be fine. Do you find the same?

 

Yes, definitely yes, - - and from an 'unbiased' opinion here.

I mean, c'mon now, Damion . . .

I've been gettin' water in my basement since I moved in.

Last summer I finally got around to runnin' the downspouts into underground drain pipes fed away to daylight.

Voila, - - nary a single 'drop' since.

Oh yeah, - - forgot too mention, - - the wifey had called a 'basement waterproofing contractor'.

$18,000!!

Yuh, - - OK . . .

 

nope

 

Tom,

If that's the source of hte problem, obviously that will take care of it.

But, after 900 inspections that I've personally done... it wasn't the source 95% of the time.

Maybe the other way around... but certinaly not 95%

There was a story on CNN I can't find (I'll post later) talking about Basement Waterproofing. It was with the owner of Angieslist - pretty neat.

Regardless... the pricetag can vary a whole lot. $18K represents a lot of area to be covered... or a salesguy trying to cover his mortgage payment.

 

Alright, - - let's put it like this.

Bein's (as stated previously) most people's downspouts 'let out' right next to the house, - - that means all the rain that has fallen on the 'square footage footprint' of the house is being dumped right along the foundation.

If that's not the whole problem, - - it sure is a lot of it.

Common sense says that's the first thing that should be done either way.

Sure can't hurt.

And it's one helluva lot cheaper.

 

Damion -

Just admit it - the most effective and economical way of eliminating basement leakage is to control both the roof runoff and the surface drainage.

After that, you look at the more costly methods. They range from the licensed/franchised "band-aids" with questionable results to the time-proven and recommended methods to eliminate the water at or below the footing level, which also reduces the hydrostatic pressure behind the wall and under the slab. Floor level drainage collectors that collect water that has already invaded the living space are not a solution.

I don't know how much experience you had in the non-existant Virginia Beach basement market, but in my 5 years of dealing with concrete and masonry construction there, I saw fewer basements than I saw elsewhere in a week. That would be the least I ever saw in one week in 30 years of experience in the basement business.

You have to address the problems first, offer ALL solutions and then sell a "bandaid" system if the customer rejects the time-proven methods. Anyone that puts their propietary name on generic products/methods is open to any and all critcism.

 

bein's? That funny

yup you're right Tom - most people do have the downspouts empty into a little splash block and that's it. Gutters clogged up too. These are obviously things that the homeowner can address themselves - or hire a handyman to do. We actually sent out a neat booklet that discussed things like that, and gave the homeowner tips on the "do-it-yourself" type repairs.

But it's still not a solution to the problem. It doesn't address three other problems...

• Water from capilary veings of water underground
• Rising water table/ground water
• False Water Table

You guys probably know a good about these types of things... but here's a good tool that shows how water gets in a basement - http://basementsystems.com/learning_center/basement/clay_bowl_effect.php

concretemasonry - notes on your post...

Just admit it - the most effective and economical way of eliminating basement leakage is to control both the roof runoff and the surface drainage.​

economical - yes as long as it that's the only problem and it doesn't fail. Replacing drywall and carpeting and other finishing can be quite costly when it's damaged by water. Effective? Hardly.

After that, you look at the more costly methods. They range from the licensed/franchised "band-aids" with questionable results to the time-proven and recommended methods to eliminate the water at or below the footing level, which also reduces the hydrostatic pressure behind the wall and under the slab. Floor level drainage collectors that collect water that has already invaded the living space are not a solution.
​

Agreed. Maybe we're making the same point here. The gutters and downspouts should certianly be looked at and done properly... but that's only fixing one part of the issue.

Then again, you did say the best way is through roof runoff and surface drainage, which contradicts this statement. Maybe we're not making the same point.

I don't know how much experience you had in the non-existant Virginia Beach basement market, but in my 5 years of dealing with concrete and masonry construction there, I saw fewer basements than I saw elsewhere in a week. That would be the least I ever saw in one week in 30 years of experience in the basement business.
​

Yup - not a whole lot of basements here - the company mostly did foundation repair work (settlement issues). However... they worked through the entire mid-atlantic region. Did a bit of driving with that company (I lived near DC at the time)

You have to address the problems first, offer ALL solutions and then sell a "bandaid" system if the customer rejects the time-proven methods. Anyone that puts their propietary name on generic products/methods is open to any and all critcism.

​

Sell a Band-Aid System? That's just plain silly. Why would you even offer it? How would you offer any assurance to them that it would work?

What's the last line about?

 

I've got a basement I'm trying to waterproof. The house is south of Boston, MA. Cape style house built in 1960. Its got a B-dry french drain along the back in the foundation emptying into a sump pump that drains about 20 feet from the foundation and a stand alone sump pump in a well in the front of the house that empties onto the driveway. They have gotten water 3 times in the last 7 years under extreme rain or thaw conditions. Never more than an inch or so.

The ceilings are prettly low so they don't want a sub floor if they can avoid it.

I was looking at thoroseal or sanitred but don't have any experience with either of them.

I would appreciate any suggestions that anyone has.
Thanks,
Matt

I am a drainage contractor in WA. If you do not have a way of gravity draining the basement which is the ideal situation. The 1rst thing I would check is the downspout drains. Check the roof lines and see which drains are taking on the biggest volume of water and see if this is anywhere near your leak. If it is try and divert the downspout water away from this area. Then I would dig up the area where the water is coming in (Make sure you dig out a wide enough area and just below the footing.) Then press wash this area apply 2 coats of thoroseal with acryl 60 admixture (make sure you get lots of material where the foundation wall meets the footing) the I would install bubble wrap foundation membrane over the area from ground level down and over the footing. Back fill with drain rock a good 2 feet up before you backfill. More than likely your problem is with your downspout drains
Good luck

 

1. Spray rubber membane type coating on exterior of foundation wall
2. Cover with extruded foam insulation
3. Backfill with washed stone, not spoils from excavation, allowing full drainage to >
4. Drain tile or form-a-drain system, which feeds any invading water to >
5. Sump pump

OR

Do it wrong, get a crack in the foundation due to excess hydraulic pressure, re-excavate the foundation wall and repeat from step 1.

Gutters installed too late in the construction stage allow water from roof to drain down foundation wall, because backfill [spoils] has settled. blocking water flow to drainage system. You only have to pay for this mistake once to do it right from that time forward.

 

thought i would bring this one back up instead of making a new thread.

this is for my personal house that I live in. It's a small ranch house built it in the 50s on a cinderblock foundation. I have a 3 course high white chalky marks around the whole basement (on the wall from the floor up). i have my downspouts with 10' pvc extensions on them. I get water in there every single time, mostly from the floor up but also from the walls. I am not a basement waterproofer by any means but was wondering is the best thing to do, is cut a trough around the perimeter of the slab along the wall wide enough to dig it out and put a pipe in there?.

I do have a a gravity daylight drain in the one corner that works to get the water out, but it's still damp and wet for several days down there after a rain storm.

I want to put my office down in the office but want to make sure i solve this water problem first. I am not ready to dig up the outside of the house just yet to put a footing drain in. I'm sure it was built with either orangeburg pipe on the outside that is garbage now, or no drain at all. I am worried about there being water in the cinder block walls and causing damage, if it's not already damaged.

what would be the best way for me to water proof this? i don't want to paint the walls just yet unless i know there is away to get the water out from behind the walls and not cause pressure build up.

i was thinking of cutting the slab 5" away from the wall and removing that concrete, digging out the stone or dirt and putting a 4" perforated pipe in there and running it all the way around the basement and it would drain into the pit where my gravity drain is to daylight way away from the house.

let me know what you guys would do, i'm not an expert when it comes to this waterproofing business.

Thanks
Dan

 

Diverting down spouts can eliminate one active leak situation. I am not a big fan of drains going into the ground, I rather have them run out away from the house.

There is no solution other then Darius's solution to eliminating any kind of a water problem. Just to add to Darius's solution, make sure you get a back up power source for your sump pump. Drain tile around perimter going to the sump pump is the only way to have a sure dry basement. Thats commen sense Tom. Since we all know water will seek its own level.

I put a sump pump in our basement without draintile. I live in a starter home. I didnt want to dig up the permiter and go through all that. I eliminated all current leak points from the gutters draining into the ground. I installed a sump pump and bored holes in the pit low to the ground. It helped eliminate some rising water tables. My basement didnt leak for three years. Then we had unusual rain and my basement flooded. I new this would happen if the water really came down, I was just hoping it wouldnt do it till I moved.

 

Fortunately, experts recommended basement waterproofing as the most effective method of channeling water from the outside, thereby, preventing the leaks in the basement walls, and flooring.
Since the inception of waterproofing, basement waterproofing has long been one of the most important concepts, especially now that most families would like to maximize the function of their basement.