This is contractor 101, but I'll go ahead and answer. Yes.

 

I'd fund out why it's sagging first and check out the condition if the framing before deciding what to do

Ledgers in these were typically 1X4 cut into the studs. Joists sit on top if the ledger, it's actually a good system.

 

The house had a basement added to it recently. Which was a result of a failing foundation. The area in question is above the worst of the settling before the new basement walls where blocked up. I guess my real question is would 8’ be too much to work with at a time. Without a risk of the wall starting to bow outward.

 

BTW, if you cut the joists back and slip a 2X8 ledger up on the face of the studs, it's going to have to be through bolted to the studs.

 

Why do you say that it has to be through-bolted?

I believe that that is not prescriptive but engineered.

Andy.

 

You have to brace it from the inside and outside, unless the studs are attached to a sill plate that is anchored to the foundation.

 

So 3 GRK structural lags wouldn’t be sufficient in each stud? Yes the exterior wall is anchored to the foundation.

 

That would have to be calculated based on floor loads. No way for me to tell.

Like a lot of old houses, there seems to be a lot going on here. Can you do 8' at a time? From what you've said, yes.

 

If the joists run to the end it's the same work to cut in 2x4 plates. I've done that on a fire job. We converted to partial platform framing.
I have think 6ft at a clip.

 

That’s crappy part, they don’t.

 

Access from the outside for a rim?

 

Negative. The existing joists only overlap the studs by roughly 1.5”

 

I didn't see this before replying, but this isn't typical of balloon framing, there were hacks back then too. You might be tearing out a floor and putting in proper framing.

 

You have to 'let in' a 1x4 ledger on the studs, as HDavis suggested. Then install fire blocking. The sagging joists are likely due to the original joists being undersized. I've worked on older homes that had rough-sawn 2x8s spanning 18 feet, grossly undersized, naturally they sagged a lot after a century. The fix is to get a proper plate or ledger under either end, and installing sistered or new joists engineered for that span and floor plate depth. In my case, spanning 18 feet with only an 8" depth to work with meant using engineered wood and fitch plates. My building department also required an engineer's stamp before approving permits. so throwing a bunch of #1 SPF in there wasn't going to cut it.

 

I’m hoping to leave what is there and fix it as structurally sound as I can get it but if I don’t feel comfortable after a test run I will ultimately be replacing the floor. More expensive for the owner but if that is what needs to happen it will. Thanks everyone for the insight and good conversation. Just starting out and it is greatly appreciated.

 

Can't you just lolly column the existing floor, cut in your plate/ledger and be done with it?

Then sister whatever is needed?

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My vote is inadequate joist depth. I've seen 2x6s 24" OC spanning 14' in a 100 year old balloon framed house. The floors were trampolines. The joist to stud connection never failed.

 

My objection is philosophical, not technical, in nature. The house has sagging floors. Big deal. They've probably been sagging for 90 of its 100 years. No, it's not up to modern code. Whoop-de-do. It hasn't fallen down yet and probably has another several hundred years left. Shove some fire stopping into those stud bays and call 'er good please.

 

It sounds like the building was framed long before McDonald's came on the scene. The building isn't up to the task of 2022 live loads.

 

I would really need to read the replies better before commenting. But, here I am.
I live in a house with balloon framing. The first house I ever bought had balloon framing. I just made an offer on a house, today (couple of hours ago) that is balloon framing. I have more experience than I ever needed in balloon framing.

I will try to go back and read, when I have more time. But in the mean time, where is the chimney? Just curious. I have seen so many old houses start sagging toward the chimney. The floor joists were attached to the chimney's which were sat on dirt.

Stick with this. You will get an answer.

 

This could just be a question of the floor following the old foundation down as it settled. No joist span info or joist mid span sag info , so who knows what's going on.

 

I'd be inclined to put a couple of 4" structural screws from the joists into
the studs, and maybe one on the other side from the studs into the joists.
Normally you don't have to pre-drill structural screws,
but I do in some situations, and this would be one of them.

 

There isn't enough meat into the stud. I think I might temp wall in under floor then cut in 2x4 plate. 8ft section is probably good.
That gives a fire stop and bearing surface to sister a size down joist if the same size fights against the slump

 

scab on a 2x6, or 8 under joists, cover with crown molding.....
still not enough bearing area to prevent joists/ledgers from crushing, laminate another 2 x 4 on 2 x8 yielding 4.5 " square of joist bearing....

verify walls have not bowed outward.

install repair blocking in floor diaphragms.

you could add 2 inches to all floor bearing walls, and upgrade insulation and utilities.

 

or install sheet metal brackets to restore connection between second floor level and balloon framing. or install a 3 x3 / 4 x4.thin angle iron to carry joist loads, cover with drywall.

 

The problem here is one of approach. You don't remodel an historic home the way you remodel a 60s rancher. With some of the suggestions made so far, you may as well tear it down and build new. A comprehensive cost effective approach is much more nuanced and difficult than tear-it-out-and-bring-'er-up-to-code.

 

Historic? It's just an old house.

In New England, we have a lot of old housing. A 100-year-old house might just be typical craphole rental stock.

 

Point of order.

We don't know the current structure an what the structural issues are.

Carry on.......

 

We work on one or two balloon framed projects a year it seems. In my experience the floors all run downhill towards the middle of the house due to a lack of proper interior footings. The exterior footings are all stacked limestone or granite in our area for that age of house.

As others have said, it's hard to assess the current situation without some pictures or drawings. The most cost effective way to support the joist/stud connection would be to put a 2x4 or 6 ledger under the existing joists and then furr out the the studs below them with 2x2's or 1-1/2" rips of 2x material.

You can cut off the joists and install a ledger but you may need an engineer to do so depending on your location.