I live in Rhode Island and am considering Azek for my external trim, especially in areas where the trim will contact the ground or masonry like around the front entrance steps and garage door.

How are your butt joints holding up on Azek installation jobs you have done? Are the joints separating?

Regarding 90 degree butt joints, like where the external garage trim side boards butt with the header or corner boards butt to facia boards. I realize that the other end of the board is free of contact to accommodate expansion and contraction. Do you glue and screw the butt end?

I am also concerned about the criticality of spacing and installation tips for 90 degree butt joints on long spans. Lets say the Azek bottom water table trim / skirt is 20 feet long sandwiched between Azek corner boards on each end. How much space would you leave at each end or would you glue the joints? Do you screw or use finish nails? If you use screws, do you use a counter sink-bit to keep the plastic from mushrooming?

How do cold days or freezing night temperatures impact your joints related to installing Azek? I am guessing that freezing temperatures mean only install Azek in the warm season.

We have work w/ Azek for 2or 3yrs now. We have been very happy with it and it is (IMO) the easiest polymer product to work with. We have never had any installlation instruction, however, we have treated it like wood and have had great results.
We use a 7/16" stapler for most jobs (be careful in the cold) stay away from the edges. We use Gorrilla glue on O.S. miters. We have also heated this stuff up to do radius work.
As far as expansion.... The jobs that were installed in the summer have small gaps on the ends and edges (hvy 1/16") in the wintertime. And the jobs that were installed in the wintertime looks great all year round.
Hope this helps.

 

:thumbsup: http://www.azek.com/insguide.asp

I never used it but people I know who have love It.

 

Do the mitered and glued joints separate? For example, brick mould around garage door trim. I am assuming that I should glue and screw the mitered joints?

Do you glue any of your 90 degree butt joints or just mitered joints?

 

Do the mitered and glued joints separate? For example, brick mould around garage door trim. I am assuming that I should glue and screw the mitered joints?

Do you glue any of your 90 degree butt joints or just mitered joints?

When using the Gorrilla Glue we have not noticed any separation of the brickmould miters. And we have never used bisquits or screws in the long points. No we have never glued end butts or outside corner butts (we do bisquit butt splices). We really haven't changed our habits that we developed with cedar or redwood. It's been 20 to 40 degrees here in NE Ohio lately, If I remember to grab my camera...... I'll post some close ups.

 

Thanks for the replies Mike. I am using Azek for the first time and want to know about any installation techniques that are different than using wood.

 

When you install Azek in the winter do you leave any gap at board ends or install tight? How about gap at board ends for summer install?

 

We have been using azek for about 2 years. I was skeptical at first as always with a new plastic product. I've been highly impressed with the product though. It cuts great and can be routed or shaped very easily.

Azek is a pvc product and they recomend using a pvc glue. The glue actually melts or fuses the product together so the joints usually stay very tight.

Azek recomends allowing 1/8" gap per 18' of product. if you're installing in the summer in the heat the gaps could probably be tighter. In cold temps just leave about 1/16" each end and you should be ok.

 

We just switched to Azek and love it. Have not used the glue yet but a buddy of mine uses it all the time and says it's great. Board will break before joint will come apart. We are going to use it for all joints and miters.

 

I have used azec occassionaly over the last few years and really like it, although it's flexibility can be aggravating on long runs,We treat it just like wood as far as end gaps go, about a good sixteenth of an inch. Never glued 90 degree butt joints. As for running splices, I like to 45 and glue them, always over solid backing so the seam can be nailed well. Will have to try Gorilla glue, I always use regular plumbing pvc cement. It seems to hold better than the Azec brand cement, although the working time is a lot shorter. No problems with just nailing.

 

I've used pocket screws with no glue and the trim is still holdind together, with no separation after 3 years

 

I also use pocket screw at the perpindicular butt joints. I scarf cut running joints, and usually fasten using glue and screw. I like to countersink my screws and go back over them with white caulk.

 

....someone promoting a product? Azek requires no paint as well...and no special trim pieces and if this Kestrel is all pre finished then I assume it can't be routed or shaped? Pocket screws a FANTASTIC for Azek. I make up sections on the ground and lift into place. Porkchops get pocketed to the rake board and off we go! I use 16 awg finish nails...used to use SS trim screws but found it to be way overkill. Of course I could see in a high wind area (think tornado/hurricane) I would go back to screws.

 

na, but an intoduction to who you are would have been nice....before you come and promote your products...if the rules even allow products to be promoted by their companies...

 

I used aztek on a job replacing the 5/4 corner boards on a house I told the home owner how they would never have to paint it etc. The I went to the lumbar yard and the sales guy was telling me make sure and paint it caus it is positively charged and will attract dust. I was like Ok mate thanks.
Anyway I saw after I installed that you can get these little plugs for the screw holes. I used stainless steel screws and caulk for mine.

 

Correct it cant be routed becuase it doesnt need to be as a fascia!

It is a board extruded to shape with a moulding, round or square edge on the bottom. It is co extruded (something I believe not seen in the USA for PVC fascias). This means that with Azec type boards you can paint them but will they yellow over time?

With PVC Ue fascias they hold their colour well and come with a 15 year warrenty on white color and there is ample expereince in the Uk that co extruded boards hold thier whiteness well for decades without the need to paint.

Not trying to sell anything as I have nothing to sell in the USA simply giving US contractors good advice from the UK where the industry is argueably 30 years more mature.

Sounds like I touched a nerve??? Got something to protect??:thumbsup:

so after the 15 yrs what happens?you paint it?:whistling

 

have any pics of that stuff? i heard its very plastic looking and dosn't have the look of real wood like azeck has

 

 

I glue every connection, whether it gets painted or not. All PVC trimboards are subject to thermal expansion and contraction. Over short runs, the joints will stay intact. I have seen a few issues with longer runs. We have a fascia run on the current project that is 90' long and painted a clay color on the South elevation. The joint closest to the center of the run has failed pretty badly. It broke near the miter, but the adhesive held. I think the paint is more of a problem than anything. Temperature during installation plays a key roll also, as well as exposure to the suns heat. Overcast days in the 60s 0r 70s are prime time to install in my opinion. The solvents in PVC cement take some time to evaporate completely and a joint made in direct sun could pull apart as the piece cools after sundown.

 

The products will go black with mildue if it is not painted. Unlike PVC Ue. Try finding stainless steel annular ring shank nails with poly top heads.
Its a nail two and a half inches long with a nail head made from white PVC Ue to match the board.

....ah, no. You talk about it like every piece of Azek will go "black with mildue" if its not painted....:blink: and then follow up with PVC Ue. :no:

I have seen Azek that has been up for 5 years unpainted on four sides of a structure, the west and east sides where tucked up tight to rows of pine trees....none of it had mildue....maybe the homeowner kept it clean, maybe they didn't. i never asked.

No offense, but Kestrel PVC Ue....

Looks like some homeowner job, remindes me of corner blocks for those who can't miter....that or I feel like I am looking at a lego home or something...

Now Azek....

Not to mention that great amount of things contractors on this very board have done with it. PVC Ue is no where near the same class of product as Azek....:no:

 

These are all jobs using Azek products that have not been painted and have all been glued. True, all PVC products move with temperature, but by glueing, the area of movement can be controlled.

 

LoneFramer, I am curious how you did the beams in the gable end of the porch on the bottom picture in post #21. I am doing the trim work on a porch with an open gable end that has the same arrangement, and am considering using Azek to cover the beams in this location. I have had plenty of experience boxing in beams with poplar (in non-weather locations of course), cedar and redwood, but I have never worked with this stuff, and I would like to prevent any rework if possible. My thought was to wrap them by ripping down a 4x8 sheet of 3/8 or 1/2 Azek. I'm trying to decide whether to miter the edges or butt joint them. It looks like I will have to glue them either way. Any advice you can offer? Beautiful work, BTW.

 

Sorry but it has to move not to keep it tight. Your work looks great now but it is technically wrong. Also needs painting.

This is not lumber...

:no:

Its a British thing doing the job properly, you wouldnt understand (only joking)

They looked good years ago too, those pics were taken a few months ago. The projects were completed as much as 8 years ago, 2 1/2 years minimum. I've seen what works and what doesn't first hand and granted I'm still learning. I've been working with PVC trim off and on since 2001, very heavily over the last 6 years. I've never seen an 18' length of fascia move more than 1/4". As for need of painting, here are a few more that are 3-5 years old without paint and every pic I've posted is in a high humidity coastal area with temperature extremes from 5 to 95 degrees.

 

Sorry but it has to move not to keep it tight. Your work looks great now but it is technically wrong. Also needs painting.

This is not lumber...

:no:

Its a British thing doing the job properly, you wouldnt understand (only joking)

You are shooting yourself in the foot, by making claims for one product as superior and by criticizing pros with many years of experience with these materials and installations.

Calling miters childish on a Finish Carpentry forum is insane. Azek crown installed on exterior rakes and fascia can be mitered and glued at the outside corners and allowed to move at the other end of the runs, in less conspicuous locations. Looks great and works very well.

If you get off your high horse, you could learn something here.

Bass

 

it is an interesting product imo,very curious about the pvc headed nails

http://www.kbp.co.uk/products/fixing-products-1.php

im not an agent:shifty:

 

....wow...

 

Thanks for the reply, LF. Did you rip your pieces down from a sheet, or did you use 1x8 planks? If sheets, what thickness? I was originally going to go with 3/8", but now I am thinking of going with at least 1/2" to make mitering easier and to make it more rigid. Is the air space necessary to prevent excess expansion? I figured I would be fastening it directly to the wood framing. The beams were framed up using 2x6's and 2'4's. They are a little larger than a 6x6 - approx 6 1/2 x 7 1/4. Can these be glued to the wood with construction adhesive along with the finish screws, or is this a no-no?

Thanks for the tips!

 

Thanks for the reply, LF. Did you rip your pieces down from a sheet, or did you use 1x8 planks? If sheets, what thickness? I was originally going to go with 3/8", but now I am thinking of going with at least 1/2" to make mitering easier and to make it more rigid. Is the air space necessary to prevent excess expansion? I figured I would be fastening it directly to the wood framing. The beams were framed up using 2x6's and 2'4's. They are a little larger than a 6x6 - approx 6 1/2 x 7 1/4. Can these be glued to the wood with construction adhesive along with the finish screws, or is this a no-no?

Thanks for the tips!

Tom, the pieces were ripped from 1x8s, I took as little as possible off for the miter, which left me with about 7 3/16. I left the play in the dimension for two reasons. I prefer to leave an air gap for ventilation to prevent rot from condensation behind the vinyl as well as having some room to work in the event that the framing is less than perfect.
Personally, I don't think gluing to the framing is necessary. I do believe that leaving a path for ventilation is imperative. Even when I wrap porch beams, I keep a gap between the bottom of the beam and the vinyl to allow any moisture to drain out the ends as well as to allow air to circulate.:thumbsup: