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Project Manager
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And if you want to put me down why dont we talk about it face to face. It's easy to be tough over a computer.
I'm not putting you or anyone else down. You posted a problem, asking for input, which is what you got.

If you don't like it, don't ask, or go somewhere else. Seems to me that you were hoping to garner a bunch of "fellow contractor" support, but were called on the carpet for hiring a hack and getting burned by him.

P.S. Gene does walk on water...if you were around here long enough you would see some of the fine work him and others of us do on here.
 

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Project Manager
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I just scanned through this thread so forgive me if this has been clearly stated. Maybe someone can give me a post # if it has.

Has there been a clear list of the scope of work this guy did for the 300 some hours?

How many feet of cabinet?

List the facts so I can help.
Gus - post #35
 

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Carpe Diem
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I just scanned through this thread so forgive me if this has been clearly stated. Maybe someone can give me a post # if it has.

Has there been a clear list of the scope of work this guy did for the 300 some hours?

How many feet of cabinet?

List the facts so I can help.
Gus, it's like talking to a wall. Unless you want to entertain your ADD, then by all means, read it all!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Jeremy,

I was trying to be nice about this. But now you're attacking some of the members here. No one called YOU a hack, just the guy that performed the work. Lighten up!

SO...

The problem with these forums isn't everyone is a damn know it all yet can never seem to answer the actual question. The problem is guys posting stories about unqualified "contractors" performing shoddy work and then trying to defend it. :whistling

OK then you define to me the difference between unqualified and qualified. Because as far as I am concerned if a person is licensed and has experience, insurance, etc. he makes the "qualified" mark.

GOOD and qualified are two different things.

The simple fact is you guys are very quick to judge yet have no useful input to the question I asked in the first place. If you want to cut down every little thing and spout what you think qualifies a person I can sit here and spout what I think qualifies someone as well.

BBB membership (biggest joke on the planet, the BBB is nothing more than a business, they use underhanded tactics to get contractors to sign up for their useless membership)

Licensing ( who cant get a license? all it takes is insurance, money and maybe some work credentials)

Now this guy has been working in the field a long time. Has licensing and talks the talk, has the insurance, the tools, etc. Does that scream hack to me? Not really. He didn't show up working out of his car. Show up with the Ryobi tool multi pack.

YES we didn't sign a contract. Theres a reason. I trusted the prick. YES I realize NOW that was a mistake (once again thank you all for making that point) What I am trying to figure out now is what people think it should have taken. WHY or WHAT I do with that information is up to me no? I am not looking for justification because I have seen enough of this work done in my lifetime to know what it takes within reason. I saw the whole job go down. I saw how long certain simple tasks took. I saw that he struggled to move a few wires. I get it.

Yes I am a bit on the edge because I am already agitated about the situation and I wasn't looking to come here and get cut apart by a bunch of guys that really don't have a clue to all of the things that went down. If you don't want to help me fine. If you cant take the time to help or offer help but can find the time to cut me down and criticize everything then whatever. Perhaps I can be perfect like you all one day.
 

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OK then you define to me the difference between unqualified and qualified. Because as far as I am concerned if a person is licensed and has experience, insurance, etc. he makes the "qualified" mark.

GOOD and qualified are two different things.

The simple fact is you guys are very quick to judge yet have no useful input to the question I asked in the first place. If you want to cut down every little thing and spout what you think qualifies a person I can sit here and spout what I think qualifies someone as well.

BBB membership (biggest joke on the planet, the BBB is nothing more than a business, they use underhanded tactics to get contractors to sign up for their useless membership)

Licensing ( who cant get a license? all it takes is insurance, money and maybe some work credentials)

Now this guy has been working in the field a long time. Has licensing and talks the talk, has the insurance, the tools, etc. Does that scream hack to me? Not really. He didn't show up working out of his car. Show up with the Ryobi tool multi pack.

YES we didn't sign a contract. Theres a reason. I trusted the prick. YES I realize NOW that was a mistake (once again thank you all for making that point) What I am trying to figure out now is what people think it should have taken. WHY or WHAT I do with that information is up to me no? I am not looking for justification because I have seen enough of this work done in my lifetime to know what it takes within reason. I saw the whole job go down. I saw how long certain simple tasks took. I saw that he struggled to move a few wires. I get it.

Yes I am a bit on the edge because I am already agitated about the situation and I wasn't looking to come here and get cut apart by a bunch of guys that really don't have a clue to all of the things that went down. If you don't want to help me fine. If you cant take the time to help or offer help but can find the time to cut me down and criticize everything then whatever. Perhaps I can be perfect like you all one day.
Hey sh*t head... why should we qualify what is qualified? You're the one telling us you got SCREWED.

Is your guy qualified? You tell us? Why are you asking all this crap if you think your guy is qualified.

Pay the bill, STFU. :rolleyes:

You keep going back and forth first on one hand you ***** about the guy and then on the other you defend him?

Bi-polar?

Is this one of those stories ... my "friend" has a problem, every time he pees it hurts...what should I tell 'him' to do?

When you get older you can smell a hack a mile away. You haven't developed the fine hack sensing perception skills we have. We smelled them from 2000 miles away over the internet.

Unfortunately when it comes to hacks, we all think the same thing here...

who is worse.. the hack... or the guy that hires him?
 

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Carpe Diem
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OK then you define to me the difference between unqualified and qualified. Because as far as I am concerned if a person is licensed and has experience, insurance, etc. he makes the "qualified" mark.
JEREMY!!!!! You continually are telling us he wasn't qualified....

I just had a guy work on a kitchen remodel for a relative and the hours were beyond belief.

I bowl with the guy and from the talk I was fooled that he was actually descent and knew his ****.

Tiled over old linoleum with cement board and ceramic tile.

As far as some of the work I am not impressed for what he charges and acts like he knows. Uneven floor tile, substandard drywall work, crooked microwave install. anyway....

When we asked for his "bill" he wrote it up on a proposal form with nothing more than a total and a summary. And his total was just a random number. came to 307.14 hours!

When I confronted him about this he claimed this is the time I have on the job! Then showed me his notebook in the truck where he simply puts the time he arrives and the time he leaves. No downtime for lunch / talking / etc.

One day on his way out he watched me and my helper installing a light fixture, and talking for half an hour while doing NOTHING. Apparently that was billable time.

I don't think paying for his inefficiency should cost us more.

My problem is someone charging for substandard work and padding the bill for stuff he shouldn't have.

This is a guy that claims he is a contractor.

He likes to talk. About all of his problems with his kids, etc. Not to mention we asked for the list of his hours which he claimed to have and its been a week and he hasn't produced it

The best is when I told him about a crooked tile and he told me that the tile spacers go in and that all you can do, the tile goes where it goes!

I asked for this log last week. He JUST called my aunt with the hours tonight but only read them to her. Now when I talked to him last he said he keeps all his hours in a notebook and showed me a new one that he must have just started. Said the other one was at HOME. Why does it take a week to come up with hours unless he was cooking some up?
THEN on top of that you continually saying there are no reason for permits.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree....:whistling
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
See post 39 - best sums up qualified/good.


Even the worst guys get lucky enough to get a few good jobs to get pictures of some good work and happy people to say good things.

BBB is BS that anyone can buy into. It was for before the internet when we couldnt easily find bad ratings on companies.


Anyway. I run a company and do good work. I don't screw people over even when its T and M. And YES that is still legal when your doing service work. Like I said. The guy seemed on the up and up. I didn't realize until the job was well on its way that he was out of his mind. I just cant understand how these people ever get the idea in their head that they are any good. And right now with the economy the way it is there are alot of guys just like this out there. Anyway I'm done arguing. I am looking four hours. Thats all at this point.
 

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Project Manager HFH..
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Hey sh*t head... why should we qualify what is qualified? You're the one telling us you got SCREWED.

Is your guy qualified? You tell us? Why are you asking all this crap if you think your guy is qualified.

Pay the bill, STFU. :rolleyes:

You keep going back and forth first on one hand you ***** about the guy and then on the other you defend him?

Bi-polar?

Is this one of those stories ... my "friend" has a problem, every time he pees it hurts...what should I tell 'him' to do?

When you get older you can smell a hack a mile away. You haven't developed the fine hack sensing perception skills we have. We smelled them from 2000 miles away over the internet.

Unfortunately when it comes to hacks, we all think the same thing here...

who is worse.. the hack... or the guy that hires him?
Really.What does he want to hear?:blink:
Yes,the guy that did the work is a hack.Yes he (the OP) is a boob for hiring him...Either pay him or don't.

It's a loose,loose situation...
 

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Yes I am a bit on the edge because I am already agitated about the situation and I wasn't looking to come here and get cut apart by a bunch of guys that really don't have a clue to all of the things that went down. If you don't want to help me fine. If you cant take the time to help or offer help but can find the time to cut me down and criticize everything then whatever. Perhaps I can be perfect like you all one day.
My suggestion is you get your wigi board out and conjure up the ghost of manny the handyman from contractor talk past. He will feel your pain and he will give you a shoulder to cry on.



Manny come in... Manny are you out there....
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
JEREMY!!!!! You continually are telling us he wasn't qualified....



THEN on top of that you continually saying there are no reason for permits.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree....:whistling

What I am saying is I know that NOW. Jesus chrsit you guys know how to twist words. My point is beforehand how would I know with the information I was presented.

Nor did I ever say there are no reason for permits. Find those words for me in my posts please.
 

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Carpe Diem
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Yes I am a bit on the edge because I am already agitated about the situation and I wasn't looking to come here and get cut apart by a bunch of guys that really don't have a clue to all of the things that went down. If you don't want to help me fine. If you cant take the time to help or offer help but can find the time to cut me down and criticize everything then whatever.
IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THIS IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU'RE GONNA GET IN THIS THREAD:

DON'T HIRE SOMEONE WHO ISN'T QUALIFIED FOR THE ENTIRE JOB (HE WAS NOT)

DON'T ALLOW ANY WORK WITHOUT A WRITTEN CONTRACT

GET ANY AND ALL NECESSARY PERMITS


And you also say we don't know what all went down. How the FACH can we tell you a realistic amount of time for this job?????????
 

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Project Manager
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What I am saying is I know that NOW.
What do you need our input for then?


Jesus chrsit you guys know how to twist words.
Thank you, we take pride in it.

My point is beforehand how would I know with the information I was presented.
Perhaps from references, work portfolio, verifying licensing with the state, calling local municipalities to see if there are any complaints against him, the BBB, chamber of commerce, etc, etc.
 

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Project Manager HFH..
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IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THIS IS THE BEST ADVICE YOU'RE GONNA GET IN THIS THREAD:

DON'T HIRE SOMEONE WHO ISN'T QUALIFIED FOR THE ENTIRE JOB (HE WAS NOT)

DON'T ALLOW ANY WORK WITHOUT A WRITTEN CONTRACT

GET ANY AND ALL NECESSARY PERMITS


And you also say we don't know what all went down. How the FACH can we tell you a realistic amount of time for this job?????????
And a little supervision would not have hurt either.
 

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Jeremy, I think you turned some posters against you when you made the "face to face" comment. If this forum was meant to be confrontational, it wouldn't work. It would just go away. From what I have seen, the senior posters are just calling you on something you need to step back and take a look at. You are really contradicting yourself.
You can't enter a forum where honest firms are getting lowballed, and expect any sympathy from like minded people when you admit doing something that contributes to the root cause.
 
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