[eidaj]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but are these hairline cracks or are they caused by the forms? I see some pitting but again not sure if it was caused by the forms when they were taken off.

https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack1.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack2.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack3.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack4.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack5.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~eidaj/images/Crack6.jpg

 

[Teetorbilt]

Looks to me like the second load of concrete arrived a little late and wasn't vibrated in very well but structurally I think you're OK. The vertical lines are from the form boards, pretty standard.

 

[PipeGuy]

The voids in the concrete are called "honeycomb" and it's caused exactly as Teetor said - lack of vibration. The two rows of horizontal holes you see acroos the walls are where form ties were used to hold the inside form to the outside form. Once the forms were removed, the part of the tie that protrudes from the wall was snapped off and a small void was left behind. Both items are superficial. From what I can see in the photos the walls look pretty typical of residential foundation work.

 

[hatchet]

The horizontal lines look like cold seams - related to what Teetor was saying about late arrival of concrete. It's too bad that residential work has to be like that - here's some walls that don't look like that
The lines in the walls are actually from the formwork (gang forms).

 

[randolph]

Howdy,
What you have there does not appear to be a cold joint from lack of vibration. If the pour was done on a warm day what often happens is splash at the pour line dries on the forms before the next go around and all the vibating in the world won't consolidate it into the wet concrete. There is a fine line between how long to wait for safety between lifts without undue form pressure. If the concrete had not been vibrated properly there would be much more evidence like rock pockets etc and there does not appear to be any. It looks like a good job to me. What you have is a cosmetic problem that can easily be sacked

 

[Glasshousebltr]

I'm surprised nobody said anything about wetting down the forms. It helps prevent the honeycomb effect.

Bob

 

[PipeGuy]

Howdy,
There is a fine line between how long to wait for safety between lifts without undue form pressure. If the concrete had not been vibrated properly there would be much more evidence like rock pockets etc and there does not appear to be any. It looks like a good job to me. What you have is a cosmetic problem that can easily be sacked

We all agree that the only issues shown in the photos are cosmetic, but what you see there isn't from "splash". The long, continuous horizontal line of discoloration in the photos shows a demarkation between pours (the far wall / back corner filled last). I don't know how much more evidence you'd need to see to know that the last pour was not thouroughly consolidated into the pour below. I've seen plenty (if not most) of basement walls that were poured without any vibration and showed little sign of honeycomb because the mix was wetted down like 'soup' - pour the whole foundation without moving the truck.
As far as delaying placement for safety reasons, you'd be hard pressed to find a structural concrete contractor that waits between 'lifts'. I've watched concrete batched on-site and poured continuosly (around the clock) and don't ever recall any discussion about the potential development of undue form pressures unless someone already knew, going in, that there was something really wrong with the form system.

 

[IowaEric]

Either way, it doesn't look like the second pour bonded quite as well as it should have to the bottom of the wall. Not sure how much this would really affect you structurally, though. Most of the honeycombing is plainly along the line dividing 1st and 2nd pour, which would be indicative of inadequate vibration.

But, like has been said, it can easily be fixed for cosmetic value.

 

[pondman]

It seems you are off to a bad start with the block on the front porch and not happy. This is going to be one long project for you. I can sense that already. Everything that you have talked about is strictly cosmetics. The structure is sound. By the time you finish this project you are going to be a nervous wreck. I do understand your feelings though, and am not trying to say you are wrong. But some of the responses to the block work (all 20 inches wide worth) on the front porch is uncalled for. Will your basemnt have studded walls and finished? That is the next question I would ask.

 

[eidaj]

It seems you are off to a bad start with the block on the front porch and not happy. This is going to be one long project for you. I can sense that already. Everything that you have talked about is strictly cosmetics. The structure is sound. By the time you finish this project you are going to be a nervous wreck. I do understand your feelings though, and am not trying to say you are wrong. But some of the responses to the block work (all 20 inches wide worth) on the front porch is uncalled for. Will your basemnt have studded walls and finished? That is the next question I would ask.

You're right about being a nervous wreck! Actually I feel much much better now. Honestly I wasn't worried about the cosmetics I just wanted to be sure it wasn't structurally unsound which I know it isn't now! Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

[pondman]

In this businees sometimes you will get some real surley responses at times. Is your basement wall going to be studded on the inside and finished? Also ask your contractor if he would parge with block with a Bonsai mix with fiberglass mesh in it. I can't tell if the blocks have any mortor in the joints. This concrete mix is for dry stacking blocks without mortor joints. Best of luck.

 

[PipeGuy]

But some of the responses to the block work (all 20 inches wide worth) on the front porch is uncalled for.

Pondman-That's not 'block work' any more than a pile of neatly stacked 2x4's is carpentry.

 

[pondman]

Pondman-That's not 'block work' any more than a pile of neatly stacked 2x4's is carpentry.

In reality it doesn't even need to be there. You could have a lentle there if you wanted. It is doing nothing but supporting a four inch slab for a porch. Quit scaring people. Act responsible. Is it shotty? YES. Does it look like crap? YES. Does it do what it is intended for? YES. Will it ever be seen? NO.

BELOW GRADE AND STRUCTURELY SOUND. You are too much when berating somone elses work like that. Stick with structural facts and enlighten them on cosmetic questions as well. :evil:

 

[Mike Finley]

Not to be alarmist, because I know next to nothing about this subject, but isn't that bond line going to have the potential to being a weak point where if there is a water issues on the other side of the wall, that bond will be susceptable to forming into a crack and letting water pass through the wall?

 

[pondman]

Not to be alarmist, because I know next to nothing about this subject, but isn't that bond line going to have the potential to being a weak point where if there is a water issues on the other side of the wall, that bond will be susceptable to forming into a crack and letting water pass through the wall?

With the exterior touch up after the forms are taken off, the with the insulation and waterproofing material installed, there should be no problem. These companies usually give a lifetime guarantee against leakage when done like this. Seeing the concrete like that from the interior view is a cosmetic flaw. That is a very good question though. Stud walls will hide that from the inside.

 

[eidaj]

I plan on waiting a year or so before finishing the basement, this will allow the contractor to repair any cracks/problems without dealing with drywall and studs. Don't really need the basement the house is plenty big enough for the two of us....

 

[hatchet]

pondman - do you really expect a contrator that allows that type of work to provide a lifetime guarantee? LMAO
Mike - yes it could be a possible place for water intrusion more so than above or below it. Although - pondman is right - with proper installation of waterproofing (they're using standard dampproofing though) it shouldn't be a problem. But from what I've seen so far of this contractor it's not looking too good for proper installations
IMO - it's not good enough anymore to just say - "Oh well - it'll be covered by dirt".. or "drywall". As far as I'm concerned quality starts at the beginning of a project and goes through to the end - it's not just making the trim and paint look nice.

 

[pondman]

Rich

Yes in North Carolina I have waterproofing companies that give lifetime guarantees. Is there a problem with that. It seems everyone is getting bent out of shape here. I agree about the type of work done. Up to my standards??? NO but the questions is ....is it a problem. NO. Block patch is meaningless for the porch slab.... And the poured walls will be fine.

I have built massive ponds with poured walls and waterproofed them like this with no leak whatsoever. AS to being covered up with a wall... that is what is going to take place later.

Do you look under your car and inspect all the weld joints and critique those that have too much weld and are not grinded down before painting?

Once again this could be done better, but the man's concern was it a problem. Overall the consensus is no. I could bring 5 structural engineers to the sight and get the same answer.

IMO it could be done better by all means, but lets let the homeonwer get some sleep.

Mark

 

[hatchet]

I didn't ask if you had waterproofing companies that provide a lifetime guarantee - asked if you expected this contractor to do that. I'm not getting bent out of shape because of the quality of that work - I'm getting bent out of shape because of where the construction industry is going. It's too damn easy to just say it'll be covered up.. and to change that it has to start with homeowners like eidaj. Owners are becoming smarter and smarter about the construction industry - that's why forums like Nates and mine are doing so well. So IMO we, as construction professionals, should be telling homeowners to not accept poor quality. To tell them it's ok structurally is fine - but to tell him to accept it is a huge disservice to eidaj, my company, and any other good contractors out there. I've heard you state something to the effect of stressful situations with large amounts of money involved in the construction of a home... do you disagree that the homeowner should get the full value of that money or is it ok to accept poor quality just because it gets covered?

 

[pondman]

Rich,

Get off your high damn horse goodbuddy. Be more precise next time in your question. You said A contractor. Not 100% clear.

I'm glad your site is doing well. DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING I SAID !!!! You kill me. I have agreed with you guys from the beginning, BUT YOU DON"T LISTEN!!!! It's like I'm married to you and not even getten any.........

He wanted to know the integrity of his basement. HE NEVER ASKED SHOULD HE ACCEPT IT LIKE THAT. If it went to court he just might have to.

WOULD YOU BUILD THAT >>>NO

WOULD I DO THAT>>>NO

IS it going to fall down..........HELL NO !!!

ANSWER HIS QUESTION AND STOP BEATING ME UP!!!!

I CAN ALWAYS BRING IN 10 OTHER CONTRACTORS TO BERATE SOMEONE ELSES JOB. BUT AT LEAST BE ANALYTICAL ABOUT IT!!!