Sounds like you already went with the cheapest archy...
Architect Concern
Looking for opinions
Hi - We are opening a preschool. The architect submitted plans for bid and to the city's planning and zoning office without using fire rated drywall. The city has come back and said we need the fire rated drywall adding a new $30,000 expense. Was it the architect's responsibility to understand the code before hand? Is there anything I can do such as negotiate the architectural fees to soften the blow?
Hi - We are opening a preschool. The architect submitted plans for bid and to the city's planning and zoning office without using fire rated drywall. The city has come back and said we need the fire rated drywall adding a new $30,000 expense. Was it the architect's responsibility to understand the code before hand? Is there anything I can do such as negotiate the architectural fees to soften the blow?
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They have a clause, some where, that says they are not responsible for errors & omissions.
So you had plans bid before they came out of plan check?
So you had plans bid before they came out of plan check?
how as the bid written that you bid on?
isn't methods and materials to use on the bid?
if so, don't you refer to these situations as "change orders"?
isn't methods and materials to use on the bid?
if so, don't you refer to these situations as "change orders"?
I wish --- they were more expensive but I choose them because of their experience with the school system.Sounds like you already went with the cheapest archy...
The errors clause states that, "The architect's liability for errors, omissions, or defects shall be limited to a maximum of $30,000."They have a clause, some where, that says they are not responsible for errors & omissions.
So you had plans bid before they came out of plan check?
I'm basically trying to figure out as consumer, do I have a case against them or a platform to negotiate the $26,000 architectural bill down any?
Griz.... Would not that be the Plan Check Depts disavowel of responsibility/liability.They have a clause, some where, that says they are not responsible for errors & omissions.
So you had plans bid before they came out of plan check?
But would not the bid spec's (contract) be the prevailing/controlling document.... and if not specified out, a change order?
If that's his clause show him the price of his failure to include fire rated drywall. Then ask for a check.The errors clause states that, "The architect's liability for errors, omissions, or defects shall be limited to a maximum of $30,000."
I'm basically trying to figure out as consumer, do I have a case against them or a platform to negotiate the $26,000 architectural bill down any?
So you had the plans bid before plan check or issuance of permit?
That must be one hell of a building to add $30K to the drywall bill.
Missing a fire rated component, especially a large one on a school, is unlikely at plan check. At least out here.Griz.... Would not that be the Plan Check Depts disavowel of responsibility/liability.
But would not the bid spec's (contract) be the prevailing/controlling document.... and if not specified out, a change order?
Agree at this point it is a change order, question seems to be who is going to pay for it. OP stated archy was chosen for familiarity with school construction.
Sort of depends on the extent of the fire rating and what the separation is and it's requirements. PW can jack up the cost astronomically on what appears to be a simple task.That must be one hell of a building to add $30K to the drywall bill.
Architect will not pay for that, I guarantee it. Not willingly.
What does your contractor say?
What does your contractor say?
Yes - They created the drawings and submitted the plans to the City for review at the same time that they submitted the plans to the 3 general contractors for bidding. The contractor came back with the bid and then the city responded stating that we needed fire rated drywall on all corridors since it was an educational use. The contractor that we selected went and got proposals for the new drywall and thus, we got the $30,000 number.If that's his clause show him the price of his failure to include fire rated drywall. Then ask for a check.
So you had the plans bid before plan check or issuance of permit?
Based on the proposal, some of the cost (about $10,000) is for classroom doors with fire rated glass in the doors. (We want parents to be able to look through the glass panel on doors to see into classrooms).
Horrible because in addition to the cost of the fire rated materials, our construction timeline is also being extended. Looks like there's a longer lead time for the glass for the doors.
Architect will not pay for that, I guarantee it. Not willingly.
What does your contractor say?
Contractor not saying must other than, "This is the most competitive number we could get."
Is it worth pursuing legally or at least negotiating for a discount off of the architectural fees? Is so, how much of a discount should I be pursuing?
In my experience glass in the door is a waste of money. The teachers cover the glass so no one can look in.Yes - They created the drawings and submitted the plans to the City for review at the same time that they submitted the plans to the 3 general contractors for bidding. The contractor came back with the bid and then the city responded stating that we needed fire rated drywall on all corridors since it was an educational use. The contractor that we selected went and got proposals for the new drywall and thus, we got the $30,000 number.
Based on the proposal, some of the cost (about $10,000) is for classroom doors with fire rated glass in the doors. (We want parents to be able to look through the glass panel on doors to see into classrooms).
Horrible because in addition to the cost of the fire rated materials, our construction timeline is also being extended. Looks like there's a longer lead time for the glass for the doors.
So this little omission covers way more than just drywall.
You talk to the archy yet?
Not the contractor's problem. They bid plans & specs.Contractor not saying must other than, "This is the most competitive number we could get."
Is it worth pursuing legally or at least negotiating for a discount off of the architectural fees? Is so, how much of a discount should I be pursuing?
Hit the archy with the full cost of his screw up, why should it be discounted?
Will I have a case being that if he would have submitted appropriate drawings, the $30,000 would have still been incurred?... Right now I'm simply dealing with the inconvenience of finding out about the new cost after providing final numbers for the bank loan (ie- I could have gotten the money from the bank if I would have known in advance, now I have to go ask family for loan).
What drywall contractor bids a school without fire rated board? They should know its fire rated, never been on a commercial job where it's not required
I see no damage other than inconvenience... You would have that cost either way..Will I have a case being that if he would have submitted appropriate drawings, the $30,000 would have still been incurred?... Right now I'm simply dealing with the inconvenience of finding out about the new cost after providing final numbers for the bank loan (ie- I could have gotten the money from the bank if I would have known in advance, now I have to go ask family for loan).
Generally speaking, you do not have a legal claim unless you have "damages".Will I have a case being that if he would have submitted appropriate drawings, the $30,000 would have still been incurred?... Right now I'm simply dealing with the inconvenience of finding out about the new cost after providing final numbers for the bank loan (ie- I could have gotten the money from the bank if I would have known in advance, now I have to go ask family for loan).
Those damages (reapplying for a loan) would be extreemly nominal, and might get laughed out of court. You might even be partially contributory as you accepted bids prior to final plans.... should you have known?
I am not an attorney.... but I'm pretty sure that is what an attorney will tell you.... for about $300.
Good luck
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