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Any Fencing Contractors out there?

15K views 67 replies 8 participants last post by  DecksEtc 
You being in Canada and me being in Colorado is probably going to make things a bit diffrent, but I will tell you based on where I am at.

As far as holes go, you are probably in sandy soil aren't you? You could probably hire a couple of 6 year olds with sand box shovels to dig easier than it is here. We just about need dynamite to dig post holes because of our clay based soils! If your soil is easy to dig, a 2 man auger would be ridiculously easy and make short work out of digging the holes. It will come down to economics. Is it cheaper to hire whomever you can to come in and dig or is it cheaper to pay your own labor or crews labor? I would do whatever makes sense.

I couldn't see the justification with a laser or transit. A string level is quick and more than accurate for fencing.

Out here, everybody screws the rails to the posts.

Out here composites are not very popular. Probably less than 5% of the market. The market is dominated by cedar privacy picket fencing. Rails with pickets make up at least 70% of the cedar picket privacy fencing, with the other 30% made up of fancy designs using cedar, such as toppings capping and suchs. The 2nd most popular would be cedar split 3 rail. You see very little composite because it doesn't really fit in with the Colorado lifestyle or rugged outdoor look that dominates the state nor does it fit in with alot of HOAs out here. You would be more likely to see white vinyl 3 rail fencing around a gentleman ranch out here because of the low maintenance.

Home Depot and Lowes out here offers inferior cedar products. I don't know how much you know about cedar grading, but the big boxes out here offer the lowest grade, and it shows by the following year as the fence falls apart, the knots fall out and the fence looks 10 years old. It doesn't take much to show a homeowner the difference between that DIYer stuff HD sells and what a quality picket is and what they are going to get out of it.


I wouldn't offer an incentive unless it was the only way to get the work. However, there is economy of scale at work if you have 3 houses to do that are within a stones throw of each other. I would rather use that economy of scale as additional profit if possible, but if you wouldn't see the work without doing it, why not? You are still making the same money by doing the 3 at once at a reduce rate as doing 3 spread out at a higher price.

As for concrete and posts, since technically concreting the posts isn't ideal anyways- for post holes for fences the stuff you pour in the ground dry and add water is fine. If you want to mix it first either by portable mixer or by hand depending on the size of the job why not? Out here I have access to companies that will deliver and mix right out of the truck, they have a one yard minimum. They pull up to the curp and mix as it comes out of the truck and pour into your wheel barrow. Get one of those needle nosed wheel barrows if you can find one so you can pour accurately into the hole, the last thing you want to do is shovel it in.

As for things to think about to differentiate yourself or add profit.

I would think about upgrades for additional costs and profits or to set you apart from the competition - to stainless steel nails to avoid the dark tannin streaks that you see on cedar. Upgrades to all screwed pickets on privacy fences - using autofeed screw guns of course. Upgrade to gravel set posts instead of cement for longer lasting posts. Upgrades to steel posts -out here wind is the fence killer, once a fence starts moving back and forth from wind every winter the post gets weaker and weaker, combine that with a little rot and hello premature fence failure. Steel posts eliminate that and are easier to work with to boot. Upgrades to staining your fences. Get creative with your gates. Offering unique gate designs can set you apart. Using metal gate framing kits and learning how to set hinges that don't fail over time will set you apart. Around here a fence is usually as weak as its gate and few people know how to build strong gates.
 
As far as getting your holes spaced right: if you are measuring off each consecutive post to the next as you dig you are going to get off, but if you stretch a line and plumb down and mark all the holes at once before you dig that helps with one hole being off doesn't throw all the rest off. The extra room around the post should allow for moving a post this way or that. At least that is what I have found. If you do split rail you basically have to assemble the fence one section at a time anyways since the rails lock into each post.
 
One thing about the thoughts on a compressor and fencing. Cordless is not much of a factor as far as convienence goes. With fencing you are generally working on one flat plane for a good distance, not like in a jobsite where you are walking all around, up and down.

With a fence you set the compressor in the middle of the run of fence and walk to the end and bang, bang, bang all the way down till you pass the compressor and keep working away from it, its not nearly the same as working on a jobsite.

You should also be able to set your depth if you are using PC nailers. However with cedar being so damn soft I can see where you are getting a lot of punch through.
 
DecksEtc said:
One problem I started having last fall was that my compressor was blowing the circuits on virtually every plug in the new homes I was working on. That is why I have been considering getting a cordless nailer. Running cords is the least of my problem.
If it is just running one gun at a time, not a gang of them, a small pancake compressor would be more than enough to do any fencing and deck jobs, be cheaper, easier to maintain, and easier on the back. You won't blow any circuits with one of those.
 
That's a nice one.

It says it pulls 12 amps. That could easily be enough to pop a normal 14 guage circuit in somebodies home if they had even 50% of the circuit on when that baby fires up.

I need a bigger compressor too. I like to use a air powered impact wrench to drive lag bolts for ledgers and my compressor is too small to continue driving effectively.
 
That's a big one!

Decks- what's a controller? Maybe I know but it is just not coming to me right now.

Air Impact wrench is the way to go. It drives lags like butter. I use it for driving tapcons into concrete also. Don't buy the cheapy, mine gets close to 500 ft/lbs of torque, for about $100.00. Also make sure you get the impact grade sockets so you don't risk one exploding on you.

I would think nothing wrong with having a pancake and a nice big fatty air compressor in the aresenal. That would cover everything you would ever want to do.

The 3 biggest things I use it for are - driving nail guns, running an impact wrench and blowing dust. It is amazing how often you can find uses for blowing dust with your compressor on the job. Cleaning yourself off, blowing saw dust before staining, blowing out drilled holes in masonary before you epoxy, it goes on and on...

Screw big foots, you can make your own. Just dig out the bottom of the whole wider and insert your sono tube keeping it about a foot off the bottom and fill with concrete.
 
DecksEtc said:
Basically, the "2-port removable console" allows "remote air regulation and higher pressure closer to the job site.", disconnects from the compressor. You can then run an air hose from the compressor to the console and then another hose from the console to your tool. The console even has a hole in the metal portion of it that allows you to hang it off a post, etc.
Ah, very slick, me likey!

My impact wrench is a 1/2 inch Husky, I don't know much about the brand, but when I needed it, I choose it based off the specs compared to the other ones where I was buying it. It had the highest ft/lbs of torque, about 500.

The sockets I bought a Sears. They are the flat black ones that are made for air tools, about $7.00 a piece instead of the normal $7.00 gets you a whole set.

You are gonna laugh but I own exactly 2 sockets! 1 that fits the lag bolts I use and one that fits the tapcons I use. The impact wrench is kind of a specialty tool for me, if it came welded with the lag bolt socket on it, that probably would have been fine for me. :)

Hey on another note are you using drill drivers to drive your screws or impact drivers?
 
I have been using drill drivers for years to drive screws in decks - just like everybody else. Now I am a impact driver convert. You won't believe the difference in fatigue using impact drivers vs drill drivers. Instead of me going on about them and how they can benefit a deck builder here is an article that explains it all if you are interested:

http://www.dewalt.com/us/articles/article_cordless.asp?Site=cordless&ID=899

If you get an air powered impact wrench for driving lags and convert to impact drivers from your drill drivers you are going to feel like a new man this deck building season. :Thumbs:
 
Well, sometimes I get the feeling I must be the only guy on the planet who buys dewalt batteries and has no problems with them. But even if one battery doesn't last all day long, I really don't care or even consider it an issue. I just replace it with a fresh one. To me the only issue with cordless is the weight of the tool being too fatiguing and if because it is battery powered if it will have enough torque or driving force to do the job the same as a corded tool would. To me the whole thing about complaining about having to change a battery is about on par with complaining that your stick nailer doesn't nail all day long without you having to reload it.
 
G.L. In Ont said:
My thinking was that I could get a summer student who didn't mind a little hard work and had some brainpower to boot. It'd be nice if they took some pride in their work and were not just out to make some extra money to pay for tuition. I'd really like a guy that was taking some sort of trade in school that wanted a way to get into the business, starting with something like decks or fences on the way to perhaps building complete homes.
Cheers everyone, GL.
I think that is every contractors wet dream of the ultimate part time employee - it kind of looks like a nice after school special movie, or a Halmark movie, doesn't it?

Probably not impossible if you are smart enough to know how to bait your hook properly and smart enough to know that you can't catch bass in a trout stream and vice versa. If you have a local market that actually has those types of people in it then you probably have a better chance of finding them, but if you are hiring out of the ghetto, well - probably not.
 
Decks Unlimited said:
I bought and used the Husky Air Tool set with a medium size impact. It drove the lagg into the header about an inch before the air kicked on. Then I lost tourque and had to finish them buy hand. It's great for cars but not for decks.
I thought is was obvious but just in case, it isn't the air wrench that is the problem, your compressor is undersized, it takes a lot of air to run air tools.

I have never seen any electric impact drivers that can deliver 10% of the torque an air powered impact driver will.

I think there is a marketing reason they spec air tools at ft/lbs and electric impacts at inch/lbs.
 
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