Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
pro
Joined
·
850 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well this is a two part question, part one, what is the best way you have found to cut mosaic around a drain, is there an easy way? Part two: Is there such thing as a floor that is just to bad to tile?? I mean im looking at this floor, it was sloped to the drains when it was poured and there all kinds of dips and high spot all over the place and of course they want 12" tile. How would one go about fixing that? Self leveling ???
 

·
"Pro"
Joined
·
628 Posts
For part 2: I believe self leveling can only be applied around a maximum of 1/2" - 5/8". Some floors (like mine) are over an inch proud in some spots. (180 year old house). I'm not a tile guy so someone should be around shortly to give the info that you need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,836 Posts
Find a square drain fixture, not a round one.

Yes, some floors are too bad to tile.

The 12" tile idea needs to be abandoned probably.

You need to do more research on your shower pan, if it was built correctly (doubtful).

Sounds like you are in danger of becoming part of a big problem.

Danger Ahead!
 

·
Wood Craftsman
Joined
·
7,324 Posts
Drain hole/floor unleveled~ need more info.

I don't know the tile you are using so I am assuming a lot here. Are the Mosaic tiles on a weave matt-I am assuming they are~ if yes trace your hole out overlapping the section over the hole~ pull them off where they will need to be cut and use a wet band saw ( if you have one ) or use your wet saw to shape the individual tile to your cut out line .
Your flooring situation ~ not enough information~ if its a small area and they are using 12" tile you are going to have problems if the floor is way out of level , and if the floor is going to exceed the max for the floor leveling material you can ( if you are experienced enough ) to get a stiffer mix on you're thin set and build it up in the area that is to shallow - can be a little tricky~ best thing to do is get the floor level obviously ~ but like said before if it exceed the max on the leveler you may need to go that route. :rolleyes:
Good luck
Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Is there such thing as a floor that is just to bad to tile??
Yes, but there are steps you can take to make it suitable. I just depends on how much work you want to do.

I mean im looking at this floor, it was sloped to the drains when it was poured and there all kinds of dips and high spot all over the place and of course they want 12" tile. How would one go about fixing that? Self leveling ???
You can't self-level on a pitched floor. If the floor is that bad, you would be best served to put a mud bed over the old floor.

12" tiles won't work aesthetically around the drain. Have you ever looked closely at a commercial bathroom? To avoid that scenario, you are looking at not bigger than about a 4" tile.

Add: I presume we are talking about a room in a basement, i.e. laundry/utility room. If it is a shower, then there are more considerations.
 

·
pro
Joined
·
850 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
more info

the mosaics are on a sheet and there in a shower stall i built and did a mud pad and waterproofed it ect no big deal there was just curious the best way to cut the tile to the drain.

The floor on the other hand is the rest of the bathroom its in a "comercial type setting" its 10x19 and the concrete was done horrible! 12" tiles is what was bough and thats what they want there is no way of changing that. So from what i heard i should just float a slight mortar bed over the whole floor to level out the ridges and valleys and with a little luck i might get it to look good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
the mosaics are on a sheet and there in a shower stall i built and did a mud pad and waterproofed it ect no big deal there was just curious the best way to cut the tile to the drain.
Cleve and Prestige told you how to approach that, so your good unless you don't understand.

The floor on the other hand is the rest of the bathroom its in a "comercial type setting" its 10x19 and the concrete was done horrible! 12" tiles is what was bough and thats what they want there is no way of changing that.
Have your customers check out the drains in a typical 8" tiled commercial bathroom, then have them sign off that they understand a 12" will look even worse around the drains.

So from what i heard i should just float a slight mortar bed over the whole floor to level out the ridges and valleys and with a little luck i might get it to look good.
If there aren't many ridges, I'd try to grind them down unless you can spare the height for a reinforced mud bed on that big of an area. The dips can be dealt with by other means. IOW, there is no "slight mortar bed", as you will need minimum 1-1/4" thick in an area over 100 SF.
 

·
Master Tile Mechanic
Joined
·
202 Posts
Drain cuts. It depends on the type of tile, but typically I will dry lay the mosaic over the drain, take an old drain top, same size and match it up, scribe a line giving a 1/8" allowance around it, take it outside and use a continuous rim 4" diamond side grinder blade on it. First pass just following the line around, progressively deeper with each pass. Too aggressive and it will crack from the heat or shale off the glaze. Takes a bit of practice, use a board or large tile under the sheet for support. I do this all the time and it makes a very smooth, even, round cut.

The uneven slab, I would normally use latex thinset and a straightedge (the longer the better, 10' straightedge would be my bet). Trying to feather with mud you get into bonding/curing/strength issues. Allow it to dry overnight, scrape it over with a margin trowel the next morning to smooth any ridges and shave it as needed. Takes a good eye and a steady hand, as thinset is too sticky to float easily. Once it is smoothed off and before it cheeses up, I throw a little water on it and flat trowel it. Once cured it is extremely hard and performs well.

Oh, and if you use mud to flatten it, wet the slab first and dust it with pure cement for a bond coat. It doesn't have to be 1 1/4" thick (like over wood/wire lathe), because the slab below provides the strength. But it would be tough to make it less than 1/2" bed and, unless you are well-versed in mud, a challenge. I would go the thinset route.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
It doesn't have to be 1 1/4" thick (like over wood/wire lathe), because the slab below provides the strength. But it would be tough to make it less than 1/2" bed and, unless you are well-versed in mud, a challenge. I would go the thinset route.
According to TCNA Handbook concerning cement mortar bed over concrete: F111-05, F112-05, F114-05, F121-05, F132-05, and F134-05 (basically every way to do tile over a mud bed) show 1-1/4" minimum thickness with a 2" maximum unless detailed by the architect. (Sorry, my 2009 TCNA handbook and ANSI specs disc is literally in the mail and I only have a paper copy now, otherwise I'd post the pages.)

If you have data to the contrary, please post the information and provide a link to your source.

If you are talking about using a medium bed mortar, which is not a mud bed, then it will be very difficult to set tiles using that if the existing slab is humped and dipped bad. You don't float that product out first and let it dry, but rather use it like a thinset, you can just have thicker cross-sections than with thinset(about 3/16" up to 3/4")

One would be much better served to do a mud bed over a really bad floor as it will be easier to achieve a nice flat surface for subsequent tiling.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,078 Posts
Cut the mosaic with a grinder. Pour floor leveler on the floor. Knock off any high spots that show through after it dries.

Add tile.

(It's up to you to research the floor leveler you use and it's limitations. Match the right one to what you need to achieve)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,078 Posts
I might be reading it wrong, but I thought he has 2 floors. The shower floor which will get mosaic tile and the rest of the bathroom main floor which will get 12x12s. I took it as there is only a shower drain in the shower and the rest of the bathroom floor is just a normal floor (no drain) just badly uneven.

You can certainly use floor leveler on a sloping floor (it will take the slope out), but obviously wouldn't want to do that with one with a drain.

Edit -
I mean im looking at this floor, it was sloped to the drains when it was poured and there all kinds of dips and high spot all over the place and of course they want 12" tile.
So is there a drain in the main floor too???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Part two: Is there such thing as a floor that is just to bad to tile?? I mean im looking at this floor, it was sloped to the drains when it was poured and there all kinds of dips and high spot all over the place and of course they want 12" tile. How would one go about fixing that? Self leveling ???
Mike, the first part was the shower with the mosaic, the second part is the 10x19 area outside the shower with drains. So I presume at least 2. Though, I still haven't found out what country huck's definition of "bad" is.
 

·
Master Tile Mechanic
Joined
·
202 Posts
WTF time warp. All of a sudden my post makes no sense but I'll leave it.


Interesting. Yeah, you're correct. /rummages around

Although I can show you this article from Tile Surfaces trade mag back in oh, '95 or so that says 3/4" (I used to clip out all the interesting stuff and compile it in a huge book), but I guess you can't see that from your house, huh.

Even so, yer right. I was talkin outta my hat. "The call on the field stands!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
Oh, if that's the case, my bad.

Unless they don't need the floor drains anymore.
That's what I was thinking because considering the nature of the question and the issues with the floor, it may be difficult for him to fix himself due to lack of experience (No offense whatsoever countryhuck as it may prove to be a difficult fix if you haven't dealt with something like this.)

Although I can show you this article from Tile Surfaces trade mag back in oh, '95 or so that says 3/4" (I used to clip out all the interesting stuff and compile it in a huge book), but I guess you can't see that from your house, huh.
I believe you, but I'm all about following manufacturers instructions of every product I use and exceeding, or at the least meeting, the updated TCNA standards of construction.

No big deal. I've read your posts and you're no rookie :)
 

·
pro
Joined
·
850 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
thanks

Yes the showers are seperate and they are done with the mosaic tiles, the problem came with the floor they want done now, wich has a drain and is pre sloped when it was poured.

The "BAD" is the dips and high spots all through out the floor. On average the floor could go 1/2" either way give or take.

My big problem is trying to level it out on a slope not being able to use a self leveling compound, i have talked with the owners and they said make it look as good as you can (real easy to please) so im looking for tips to help make it look the best. I have some good ones so far any more would be helpful thanks.

And no offense taken i would know exactly what to do if the floor had no drains and was not pre sloped but this is a little bit above me at this point. so i will have to do some head scratching and maybe call in some more knowlage in to help me. Thanks everyone
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,078 Posts
Yes the showers are seperate and they are done with the mosaic tiles, the problem came with the floor they want done now, wich has a drain and is pre sloped when it was poured.

The "BAD" is the dips and high spots all through out the floor. On average the floor could go 1/2" either way give or take.

My big problem is trying to level it out on a slope not being able to use a self leveling compound, i have talked with the owners and they said make it look as good as you can (real easy to please) so im looking for tips to help make it look the best. I have some good ones so far any more would be helpful thanks.

And no offense taken i would know exactly what to do if the floor had no drains and was not pre sloped but this is a little bit above me at this point. so i will have to do some head scratching and maybe call in some more knowlage in to help me. Thanks everyone

I know a lot of tile setters would just use thin set in those lower spots, knock off any really high 'bumps' they could and then use a deeper cut trowel when setting the tile to 'float' or average out over the rest of the remaining deficiencies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
645 Posts
I know a lot of tile setters would just use thin set in those lower spots, knock off any really high 'bumps' they could and then use a deeper cut trowel when setting the tile to 'float' or average out over the rest of the remaining deficiencies.
I agree, as long as the maximum thinset thickness prescribed by the manufacturer of the product isn't exceeded.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top