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Another debate, layin' in wait...

5K views 42 replies 20 participants last post by  21gun 
#1 ·
Ok Boys n girls.... here's everyones chance to show their stuff. i'd like to get some perspectives on a home i am planning to build in the future. say in a year or two. I will most likely build as i go, (on my own dime) as the economy has has shot me in the foot and i cant get a loan to build.

Picture if you will a gambrel type barn 16' x 28' fro the main body of the home. 9 foot ceilings up and down.
(Yeah, just like a storage barn at home depot.But taller)
The lvg room at the front, master bath and laundry in the rear.
Flanked on the right with a 12 x 24 kitchen/dining rm set back from the main 2 feet with a simple lein-to roof.
Flanked on the left with a 12x22 master bed room and a huge walk in closet. also set back 2 feet and simple lein-to roof. All metal roof, debating on siding, cement, metal or cedar board n batten, undecided. the stairs by the way are in the center of the main... and there would be 2 bedrooms up stairs. on in front, one in back. The roofline will have a dormer at the landing at the top as well as 2) window (dormers) per room on one side of the upper roof. As a design thought i am debating building the main (barn) and siding it all the way around so the siding is inside the adjoining flanks. Think that would be kinda cool if we go with cedar. Drywall the rest ofcourse. Im also thinking of building it so that it could be separated and moved if ever need be.

Here's where i need the input....

I just thought about going with a slab and footer foundation, as the lot we are looking into is nice and gently rolling... maybe a foot of grade over 20 feet, maybe 2 feet in 30 feet(Minimal grade really) I wonder if there would be any savings to gain, whether by lumber, or heating cooling, as i have never lived on a slab foundation, and have no comparisons. I have to imagine it would be better in some ways, not so better in others.

The wiring presents a problem for me too. I will have to hire all of the major stuff out as i dont know code for ele. what so ever. I know a little but not enough to wire the whole house. I wonder what is better... wiring from the top or from the bottom? i would imagine from the bottom would save a little wire... but if we go with a slab.... there goes that idea right? or no?

With the disassemble and move theory, how could the wiring be done to make that easier? Junction thru the wall switches somehow? I know all connections have to be in a box... how might i plan this?

Any one experienced with outdoor wood furnaces? (the boiler type with aux power) If this goes on concrete i would really like to put one of those in. How tough are they to install? Manifolds and such... pumps...not my area really. And price? any one put one in lately?

My son is 5 so i think we will go with a cheap laminate for most of the floors and carpet elsewhere and vinyl in the baths. Until he is a little older and more careful, i dont wanna put down the good stuff and see it get "rurnt" (for all you city folk that means thrashed by a five yr old!!!)

Since we are thinking about building as we go... i see the purchase of some water sealer in our future by the 5 gallon bucket size. A gc i worked with years back asked us to spray the subfloor down with it and come back the next day to start framing walls. So we did. we doused that joker...3/4 osb... we had the ext walls up and it rained for 2 weeks. we drilled holes in the lowest spots we could find, cut out our bottom plates at all the doors and let all the water we could out.... worked like a charm.... but we had a sump in the basement going non stop for 2 weeks.... the footprint on this house was probably 4500 sq feet. so it was like a swimming pool. the Tompsons waterseal worked great!!!! nothing buckled up, or even swelled. If i had not seen it i would have never believed it. So i will use this trick too, might even use it on all the lumber during construction... couldnt hurt right? or could it? Any experience there?

lastly, i'd like to put a great big i beam in the main roof peak, just like an old hay barn. with a pulley and rollers. would be handy moving furniture in and out, and just kinda cool i think... but how to hinge the door to drop down, and then ofcourse how to seal it up tight when not in use. I kinda would like it to act as a patio door, put a screen up and railings to keep it safe. (no patio naturally) Any design ideas on that appreciated.

Thats about it... i figure this one cant fare any worse than some threads i have been reading. I just hope no one asks me if i have a code book in my pocket. I dont.... yet... I know there are some great minds here, and i hope this might interest some of you. Again, this is my own house plan, i drew and designed, this is not a job or a client. Any and all mistakes will be the sole responsibility of the erector, in the event of actual commencement of construction, kiss my a** goodbye for a while!!! this is gonna take some long time to do after work and on weekends. i just hope we can make it happen. Any how, thanks you guys, if anyone has even read this much... so long winded. Sorry. Thanks, good night.
 
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#2 ·
Good Lord, I'm going to start typing with a German accent if you're going to keep typing in a Southern accent. :laughing:

As nearly as I can tell you forgot to ask the most important questions. What kind of irrigation system and what kind of landscaping are you going to put on your new property?
 
#3 ·
Just how long do you think you can take to build your own abode by paying cash as you go?

I doubt your permit, not to mention your insurance underwriter, will be willing to stretch that far out.
 
#4 ·
This was my initial plan.Do what I did,..........don't do it.

Save the cash so it doesn't rot into the ground before you get it done.
What little interest you earn (or invest it)will by far be better than worrying about materials walking off,liability insurance.
Unless you can get it to dry in,it isn't worth the risk of losing interest because of slow and tedious progress.
I got lucky and sold my old house when the market was right,got to live in it for two months after it sold,and had a slow winter where I could commit to it.
I know it never would have gotten done if I did it peacemeal.Something else would have come up.Just moving tools and equipment around would have been time consuming.

I've seen many of these projects never get to completion,then it's bye-bye investment.
 
#5 ·
Not sure what your current living conditions are, but why not save a little while, let the credit improve, and possibly take advantage of the first time home buyer tax credit(providing that it gets extended past Nov)? I agree with the other guys. These things tend to drag on and really try a marriage. Buy an existing fixer upper when the opportunity comes, fix it, live in it a while, and then consider the new build.
 
#7 ·
The wiring presents a problem for me too. I will have to hire all of the major stuff out as i dont know code for ele. what so ever. I know a little but not enough to wire the whole house. I wonder what is better... wiring from the top or from the bottom? i would imagine from the bottom would save a little wire... but if we go with a slab.... there goes that idea right? or no?
Either way...no big deal...just let the EC know this is his retirement job.



With the disassemble and move theory, how could the wiring be done to make that easier? Junction thru the wall switches somehow? I know all connections have to be in a box... how might i plan this?
Get some mobile homes or modulars or something.....what you propose will take a lifetime to accomplish....only to move it ?????
 
#8 ·
I know a guy who spent 13 years building his dream home. And honestly, it truly is an absolutely beautiful house.

And what did it cost him? In his own words.... "My kids and my wife."

Honestly. Upon reflection, he realized how many Little League games, dance recitals, school plays, etc. he missed because we was so wrapped up in building a home for his family. When his wife spent 3 days in the hospital following a car accident, he spent more time at 'the house' than with her. He rarely tucked his kids in at night or read them a story.

When all was said and done, he finished the punchlist and called a realtor.
 
#9 ·
I do know of one such construction project out in Troy that is underway.

HO bought some property then put a POS mobile home on it.

It's a small lot so he's actually building the house around the mobile home. Last time I was out there (3 to 4 months) he had the frame (steel) and roof (steel) done. He was weathering in the east end and demoing the mobile home as he went.

Eventually he will have a completed home and several dumpsters worth of demo'd mobile home.
 
#10 ·
Forget all the naysayers. If this is your dream go for it.:thumbsup:

I built my dream home 12 years ago, when my sons were 12 and 14. Took us 15 months, but every nail and board was paid for when it was installed.

We have 5 acres on the lake and had built what is now my shop first and lived in it as we built our home.

It was a great family project, and I am glad we did it but I will not build another one myself again!
 
#11 ·
Building your own home is something you should take on at some point in your life. There will be stories to tell that are good and those that are of the nightmare brand.

You would do your family a great justice by setting yourself up to limit the nightmare stories to minimum before you start. This journey will be hard enough to stay connected and close to your wife as it is. Trust us older guys that have been down this path before you about this one. No house is worth losing your marriage over.

Here are some points that I think you should take a close look at before you start. This is just me talking so throw caution to the wind where ever you feel the urge.

Get your lot secured and pay off as much of it as you can.

Spend some cash to get the plans drawn up for the house you think you want.

Estimate the whole thing as if you were doing it for someone else. Including the site work and utilities.

If you have a contractor friend, have him check your numbers. The easiest mistake we make is under bidding our own work. Weird but true.

Sweet talk a banker that will make a construction loan for that much. You don't have to use it all but at least it's there.

Focus your full time attention to the project and draw a check to cover your monthly nut.

Sub out the work that you are not that good at to keep the ball rolling.

Take one day off a week to spend with your wife and kids.

Thank your wife for everything she does to help out weather she is slow and awkward or not.


But never ever start this thing without a realistic budget and the financing to match. I mean never ever do it. Ever. I will round up a CT posse and come down there and ***** slap you till you submit.

Do you feel the brotherly love?
 
#14 ·
Wow! This is why i love CT!!!! I do, i feel the love!!! I knew there would be a varying response and THAT is what i am looking for. HAd i thought about it draggin out.... sure.... had i thought about how long?MMM, a lil bit. About my wife gettin fed up? NAh.... never crossed my mind, but now it has. I think i'm gonna rethink this build as i go thing and pray my credit gets a bit better. God forbid i got hurt and this this thing wasnt finished.
Well, i'd have to get dead not to work, but you know what i'm sayin...what would my wife do then? She'd have to marry some deadbeat, lyin', 2 faced, backstabbin contractor to get it finished... and then i'd have to look down on the POS and throw lightening bolts at him.... Ok... off topic..

I would like to do it as i go... the whole reason... no payments. No paper. No debt. It's mine... and i could borrow on it later. I think to do it all at once it would take me about 4 months. if i figure one day a week, maybe 2... then it suddenly becomes an entire year nearly. That'd be ok even still. There's about 50k in material in this build. It'd take every dime i made to keep it rollin... So retihinkin that build as you go, but still thinkin about doin it. i hadnt thought about usin subs (buddies) that would keep the dust off any way... but drives up my cost even more.

hadnt thought about insuring it...or pullin a permit, dont need one actually, it's in the county, no inspections out there. Which scares me....who's keepin the honest man honest then? My mom in law lives out there and the property we're lookin at is very visible from her house. Plus she's retired, and home alot. So no worries about stuff walkin off.

Before i forget... GUS... thank you for your post and bringing a smile to my face, the comment about the wife helpin brought back memories... she used to help me alot before the boy was concieved, she was the best damn worker i ever had, she was always thinkin ahead of me, ahd common sense, knew what the tools were, and could even measure a bit. I love workin with my wife. Tho she asks a lot of questions and it gets distracting some times when you have numbers in yer head, but she learned fast, worked hard, and learned to appreciate what i did for a living. I remember one evening she came up to me after i had gotten out of the shower and looked at my hands and nearly cried... I had been shingling for a few days, the hands were chewed up good and split and bleeding... she just said, "Honey i love you." WHat's the matter i said... she said she hated that i had to work so hard to take care of us. I told her i wouldnt have it any other way. I nearly cried myself!!! I love that woman, she has stuck beside me so close, thru about everything you could imagine. But thats another topic. A good woman tho, a damn good woman. Wouldnt take 100 others to take her place.


The moving it theory, well, it just makes it more interesting i think! No? i guess the size of the home makes me think we would maybe go bigger some day. We're only talkin abot 14-1500 sq ft. i dunno, i thought it'd be cool to undo a few things, jack er up and haul it down the road if ever the need arrised. Thought some planning would be good. Have to get to work, but look forward to replyin to ya'll all soon,

Ps, Husqy go ahead... I sprecken a lil, But t'aint no needin' fur pokin fun at a fellers draw, Ya know why you dont smile much in the south while visitin from up north? Folks might think you's showin off all them pretty teeth and take 'ffense to it. What would a german accent "look" like ? i'm curious now... c'mon Husqy... show us what you got!!!! Yes, i'm german. Some where back there. Baron is not such a good name over there tho is it?
 
#17 ·
Leave room for an office and a spare bedroom....you never know. :thumbsup:

Aside from design this is exactly where I am headed. I am on the 2 year plan. I have eliminated all of my debt and now looking for a piece of land and socking away all I can. In two years I hope to have at least a solid acct to draw from while I focus on the house. My credit score is 850 now so maybe a loan will not be so hard to find.
 
#18 ·
I'd love to have a 2 year plan but the place i'm in now doesnt say carpenter... it says ghetto. I was supposed to fix this place up for the land lady... she lost her job and couldnt afford to do the repairs. now i'm stuck in a dump. this was just temp until i found some land and could start building... now my credit flopped and i have nothing saved up either. I just like the idea of not having a payment. If i borrow... i still spend interest money... instead of doing a garage or work shop, or a koi pond. what ever... i dunno... i still wanna do it... just to figure how now. brown cow, sorry, couldnt resist.
 
#19 ·
One of my co-workers is doing this as we speak.

He made a couple very good decisions. He has a whole house design, but broke it down into additions. That way he has a kitchen, bedroom and living and got a CO in a decent time frame. Then when he is fit to continue building everything is already in place.

The first thing he did was build his garage. He had storage, and a shop to work out of during the home build.

He is also a time trading whore! He does a lot of flat work so he traded electricians, plumbers, and some of us for garage floors, patios, roofs anything we needed help with, as long as we came to help when he needed it.
 
#23 ·
funny, i just priced some of these for a guy who wants a storm shelter under a new possible addition... they run about $2,800 for a 48 footer, i guess they're about 8 feet wide. 384 sq feet? Seven sumthing bucks sq.ft.?

That's framing labor here for a lake house. Stack and weld boys, stack and weld.... screw the tornadoes... russians, bombs, neighbors, gangsters, mice, hell, thems gotta be bullet proof almost. Getting trim attached to em's gotta be tough tho.... and dry wall? furring strips i guess. Wonder what gauge steel they are?


That's cool, but i dont think it would look good in the lot we have in mind.


SLSTECH.... it's right behind the totem pole on 222, Rayburn Williams sold the 2nd house from the pole to my Mom in law.... the land is right behind her new place.


StrathD, if you want the number i have for the conX containers PM me and i will get it to you.
 
#24 ·
... i see the purchase of some water sealer in our future by the 5 gallon bucket size. A gc i worked with years back asked us to spray the subfloor down with it and come back the next day to start framing walls. So we did. we doused that joker...3/4 osb...
has anyone else tried this and can confirm the outcome?

have you considered building the garage/shop first? make that the living space and you can move more slowly w/ the house. house on slab would be more economical plus you wouldn't have to buy the Thompsons. electric can go in under the slab-conduit is layed down before the pour. get your dimensions correct-if the electric comes up where the island is supposed to be it's not convenient to move the service.

other consideration is the direction of the 2nd floor joists-have them running so that the ductwork/electric can be run to provide services.
 
#25 ·
great ideas... i have never seen any one lay out plumb and ele before the pour but i guess its pretty easy once the outter forms are up... maybe some stakes where things stub up and alot of re measuring. i think i like the slab idea best now... but scared... i have 0 concrete knowledge other than it's hard... and heavy. I guess all the hvac would have to come in from the ceiling and that scares me too, condensation and all, seen a lot of ceilings ruined in basements fron it... but an hvac guy should know how to do it right.

This is what i meant by another debate, layin in wait.

Money isnt lookin good at all right now... i'm beginning to think we might have to get the credit up to snuff to get the better interest rate and wait it all out. I hate it... this place is a dump when you look at all the fixin up i do for everyone else... cobblers kids needin shoes bit i suppose rings true. I think i'm a bit envious now too, mom in law is getting me to make over her whole house. makes me feel inadequate... her daughter having to make do with a rental property. I'm really ashamed of it truely. It was supposed to get fixed up on the land lady's dime and my time... no dice tho... she lost her job. So i got stuck with a house i wouldnt have even thought about living in. Maybe the big guy has a plan i dont know about yet. I keep prayin.
Thanks again guys for all the wisdom.Keep it comin... i sure will put it to good use some day soon i hope.
 
#30 ·
I think i'm a bit envious now too, mom in law is getting me to make over her whole house. makes me feel inadequate... her daughter having to make do with a rental property. I'm really ashamed of it truely. It was supposed to get fixed up on the land lady's dime and my time... no dice tho... she lost her job. So i got stuck with a house i wouldnt have even thought about living in. Maybe the big guy has a plan i dont know about yet. I keep prayin.
Thanks again guys for all the wisdom.Keep it comin... i sure will put it to good use some day soon i hope.

Is the rental a SFH or a MF?


Either way....what is worth in "as is" condition?
Buy it ~ if viable.

Fix it up.
Sell or rent.
 
#26 ·
i keep thinkin back to the fact i could get it in the dry for about 25k... then it would be another 25k in a hurry for the finish up.1400 sq feet, i've finished bigger basements!! I guess 32years i didnt learn to save for a rainy day...now it's pouring. I have to start seeing the facts... i want it... but it may take more time than i really care to wait to start. Better late than never i guess.
 
#28 ·
I love your idea but I think you had better rerun your numbers .
I built my own 13 years ago . 1900 sq ft and it cost $105,000 labor and materials . I did ALL the carpentry work and the roofing . I left the trades to the professionals . I'm sure material costs are up.

The only other thing I disagree with is open ended length of terms . I did a 6 month const. loan and must say it kept me motivated to not let schedules slide . I would have a definate finish date on the calender .
Also having a cap on the amount keeps one from making $ mistakes when picking out cabinets ect . Plus while working on your own house is great it pays you NOTHING .

If you can provide the bank with the land as collateral surely you can swing a loan . Interest rates are dynamite and the size of the house you want to build is cetainly affordable . GOod luck
 
#27 ·
I will be building my fourth and final family home next year(until kids are gone shhh)
I would not even think about starting until you had enough time and money to work straight through to water tight.(roof and housewrap)
No matter how you do it it will be a bit stressful for your family. depending on personalities. If you were not in a hurry there are alot of sweet deals out there. Buy up a bargain fix it up for 5 or 10 years until the market is a lttile stronger sell then use that money for new home. only problem with that is land prices will go up to.
good luck
 
#29 · (Edited)
A slab is by far the cheapest and strongest way to go which is an upside, the downside is you still need some sort of crawl space for access to plumbing. Have you considered a PT wood foundation? This may be a cheaper way to go vs. concrete but you will have to check your local codes, back in 2000 they changed the code here for PT wood foundations so you can only build a rach or one level on them now. I helped a friend build his 2story home with a PT foundation and he has never had any issues. His boss also has a 7K square ft home on a PT foundation that is 25yrs old now and resideds in a flood zone. The home gets surrounded by water every year and he has had no issues either. I have seen the foundations with the plastic pulled back when other work was being done and the foundations look new.

Now for wiring you would be best off putting the panel on the 1st floor and wiring from there, i am assuming you are doing an underground service? The procedure of how home will be wired varies by contractor. Everyone has their own technique but in the end you get the same result.

Wood boilers! Well, i have two of them, one at each home. The one "woodmaster" has been operating for 10yrs now and the only problem i have ever had was a loose connection on the fan in the door from operating the door. This boiler heats the home through the forced hot air system with a 200k BTU heat exchanger installed in the plumbing. There is also a heat exchanger installed in the elec hot water tank on the return side. This is also how we fill up the boiler when it gets low on water, we just turn a few valves at the hot water tank and back feed the boiler with water until it overflows the vent. The second " wood doctor" has not been hooked up yet as i ran out of time last winter and my mini-ex wouldnt dig through the frost. I have my water line buried as well as the power but neither has been hooked yet. I just rented a core drill yesterday to punch through the concrete. I bought a 60 plate heat exchanger for this home as this house has hot water baseboard heat. I still need to buy another heat exchanger for the hot water maker which i dont need to do but i am tired of running out of hot water so another exchanger in the hot water line will take care of that. If you like i can show you pics of them and how they are plumbed. The woodmaster is good for heating 10k sq ft and the wood doctor is good for heating 8k sq ft. When buying a wood boiler you should always go with a little overkill in size, most folks have found that the larger firebox allows some airflow around the wood for better recovery. Its also nice to just load that puppy stuffed full of hardwood and not touch it for 3-5days :thumbsup:. We burn mostly pine and popular which burns rather quickly but the boiler will still run for a good solid day and sometimes two days. This is one of the reasons why i also cut tree's for customers, i charge them to cut the wood and then take the wood home to heat my home. Essentially they are paying to heat your home. Some of the pines tree's if they are decent logs i just haul to the mill, then i take the money and put it towards a load of hardwood. A couple jobs with good logs will buy a load of wood and you still have money in your pocket just from cutting them down.
 
#31 ·
A slab is by far the cheapest and strongest way to go which is an upside, the downside is you still need some sort of crawl space for access to plumbing.
Uh why? Most slab on grades have the plumbing run in the roof & wall area's. The drain lines for the toilets / showers / tubs are all that is required to be installed before the slab is poured. In colder climates - the main line running into the house is also run under the slab, but that is just the supply that runs to the Water Heater.
 
#33 ·
21, Nothing wrong with renting..I bet half the people who bought houses from 2005-2007 are wishing they had rented or stayed where they were instead.

I bought a forclosure in January of 07 and put 20k of materials plus alot of my own labor into it and luckily its a nice place to live cause its not a great investment in this real estate market.

What is your goal..do you specifically want to build your own home or do you just want to live in a nicer home that you own?
 
#37 ·
well, yes. i am tired of fixin up everyones house like a million bucks and coming home to my place here that is no reflection of what i do for a living. I cant have people over cause the place just looks rotten, it's clean, my wife makes sure of that, but it's just not a home. I'm ashamed of it.

Yes, i want to build my own home and be done with working on these silly rental homes. I have owned a house once. for about 2 years. It was a nice place and didnt need any work really. every other place i have rented. And each place has gotten remodeled to some extent. The apt i had was the worst... but when i left the landlord was sooooooooooo sad i was leaving.... i had redone the kitchen with my own money... (i was young and had alot more money then)... it's been the same every place i rent... do the work out of pocket, get some off the rent if i could... what ever... i just like to live in a nice place. This one i cant fix.... i have no desire to spend my money on it, and the land lord has no money to spend. The roof is shot... she wont even call the insurance. I have to keep getting up there and caulking what i think might be the leak... it has holes everywhere... it's a trailer.

Yes, build my own home... know what i have, do it just the way i like it, and be able to love it. HAve something to pass on down to my son. Give him a place to be while he builds his own home one day. Plus make the wife happy and proud of not only where she lives, but for being able to do it with me.

I'm tired of wishing for something nicer.
 
#35 ·
I built a 28x40 garage first, blocked off one bay for stuff. Put 3 dormers on and had a bedroom on either end and a full bath in the middle up stairs.
Put in a temp wall to block off kitchen with site built cabinets.
We (wife and two kids) lived in it for about 4 years while we saved more money.
One advantage was I was on site ( securty and travel time) and could work at anytime.
 
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