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Butcher of wood and metal
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Was looking through a Do It Best catalog last night and noticed these AFCI outlets and was wondering if any of you sparkies have used them. I know in new construction breakers are the way, but in a older house that is being up graded some can see that they might be useful. Thoughts/ opinions?
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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I know in new construction breakers are the way, but in a older house that is being up graded some can see that they might be useful. Thoughts/ opinions?
I try to use breakers almost always. My reasoning is that if there are any downstream outlets on the circuit (and there usually are), the HO won't necessarily know to check for a popped outlet upstream. He'll go to the service panel, and wind up scratching his head when none of the breakers are popped.

No real price advantage with those outlets either.
 

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Butcher of wood and metal
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Discussion Starter #3
I try to use breakers almost always. My reasoning is that if there are any downstream outlets on the circuit (and there usually are), the HO won't necessarily know to check for a popped outlet upstream. He'll go to the service panel, and wind up scratching his head when none of the breakers are popped.

No real price advantage with those outlets either.
I agree with your reasoning. Just was thinking in older house where might be dealing with a full box or things along those lines.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
 

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Electrical Contractor
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I have not used them yet but I have a friend who uses them all the time in old work. They are fine. We have the P&S brand so I cannot speak for other brands
 

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I try to use breakers almost always. My reasoning is that if there are any downstream outlets on the circuit (and there usually are), the HO won't necessarily know to check for a popped outlet upstream. He'll go to the service panel, and wind up scratching his head when none of the breakers are popped.

No real price advantage with those outlets either.
I'll look later, to double check but I don't believe you can use an AFI receptacle to protect the receptacles down line unless the wiring is in EMT.

Tom
 

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Electrical Contractor
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I'll look later, to double check but I don't believe you can use an AFI receptacle to protect the receptacles down line unless the wiring is in EMT.

Tom
Why would that be so. Afci receptacles are feed thru just as a gfci so anything downstream is protected-- no emt or armored c able is required.

What you may be thinking about is this

(5) If RMC, IMC, EMT, Type MC, or steel-armored Type
AC cables meeting the requirements of 250.118, metal
wireways, metal auxiliary gutters, and metal outlet and
junction boxes are installed for the portion of the
branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install
a listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI at the first outlet
to provide protection for the remaining portion of
the branch circuit.
If we are replacing an outlet or adding on to a circuit we can still use the afci to protect that portion of the circuit that had been modified. No reason to protect the entire circuit
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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I'll look later, to double check but I don't believe you can use an AFI receptacle to protect the receptacles down line unless the wiring is in EMT.

Tom
Right you are, though it actually has nothing to do with downline--they're concerned about protection of the run from the service panel to that first outlet. '08 NEC, 210.12 (B), Exception #1.

That aside, my "rule" applies to GFCIs as well. I haven't had occasion to want/need an AFCI outlet.
 

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That aside, my "rule" applies to GFCIs as well. I haven't had occasion to want/need an AFCI outlet.
I agree. Only goody-two-shoes install AFCI's without a gun being held to their head.

-Hal
 

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Electrical Contractor
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Right you are, though it actually has nothing to do with downline--they're concerned about protection of the run from the service panel to that first outlet. '08 NEC, 210.12 (B), Exception #1.

That aside, my "rule" applies to GFCIs as well. I haven't had occasion to want/need an AFCI outlet.
The op is talking about old construction so IMO this statement is not correct
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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The op is talking about old construction so IMO this statement is not correct
I admit I haven't had an inspector pass judgement one way or the other, but logically, how much sense does it make to have arc fault protection on only part of a circuit, when it's just as easy to protect the whole thing at the panel?

I haven't read anything in the '08 code that allows such a scenario other than the exception I quoted.
 

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Electrical Contractor
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I admit I haven't had an inspector pass judgement one way or the other, but logically, how much sense does it make to have arc fault protection on only part of a circuit, when it's just as easy to protect the whole thing at the panel?

I haven't read anything in the '08 code that allows such a scenario other than the exception I quoted.
Here is why I would prefer not to protect the entire circuit with afci in an existing home...

Say I am at the end of a circuit and I need to add one or more outlets. I would prefer to protect what I install and not inherit the problems that may exist from the original install.

It would be fine if the home owner wanted to pay for us to trouble shoot those issues but you know the answer will be that the issue wasn't there until you did work on it. In many cases it may be ok,,,
 
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