Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner
21 - 40 of 62 Posts

·
Administrator
Sawdust follows Me Everywhere
Joined
·
65,498 Posts
Common sense says that the extra 1/4" won't make any difference. To go that far to make this a big stink is really all about the pretend power you think you have over people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
And an attitude change toward the ADA is in order here also. These aren't mere code violations, this is civil rights law. The building code dictates the position and size of your business's sign out front. Civil rights law keeps you from putting "Whites only"on the sign.

A professional contractor has an obligation to know and obey the rules. I don't wanna hear the whiney-boy hacks that don't.
You missed the point, which i mentioned in the OP. Several of the findings are fair and need to be corrected. 3/8” to the top of the switch is dumb. And it’s not the contractors fault, the construction drawings probably showed 48” to the center … blame the archy.

Any we have signs on our businesses … no counter installers allowed.
 

·
Registered
General Contractor - Residential
Joined
·
705 Posts
You need to do a bit more research. The coffee in question was not at the machine manufacturer's recommended temperature. The woman offered to settle for her hospital bills, but some dumbass at Mickey D's decided to f$%k with the wrong little old lady.

And an attitude change toward the ADA is in order here also. These aren't mere code violations, this is civil rights law. The building code dictates the position and size of your business's sign out front. Civil rights law keeps you from putting "Whites only"on the sign.

A professional contractor has an obligation to know and obey the rules. I don't wanna hear the whiney-boy hacks that don't.
Yu no we can’t be readin and rithmaticin in Missippi vary gud.
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
And it’s not the contractors fault, the construction drawings probably showed 48” to the center … blame the archy.
Again, it's a professional contractor's job to know what he's building. Architects can and do draw any damn thing and never get a red tag. If you don't have the balls to stand up to a client or architect when they're screwing up, you aren't going to last very long in this business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Again, it's a professional contractor's job to know what he's building. Architects can and do draw any damn thing and never get a red tag. If you don't have the balls to stand up to a client or architect when they're screwing up, you aren't going to last very long in this business.
No it’s not, the gc should build what’s on the plans. That’s why you hire a licensed design professional. Like Thom Paine said … he always shows centerline height. Probably everyone does. Except the scumbag lawyer for the equally sh1tty client who says it’s 3/8” too high because of a strict interpretation of the definition.

You are aware that 2 doors in series, like a store entrance, the doors have to be spaced about 7 ft apart. (Leave it at that, don’t argue exact numbers). There is a discussion going on at a building inspector forum (commercial guys, like permit office types) about a fire marshall who says a security door over the front entrance of a home is a door in series and thus a violation. Needs to be spaced out from the front door.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
@Kowboy #25

@Half-fast Eddie #27

Gentlemen, gentlemen......


You are each correct in your respective perspectives .....

Often, others' interpretations, outside our individual influence, dictate
circumstances. Most of us might share a story of an asinine
interpretation of a code.

Sometimes we must push back; sometimes we must accede and
"keep on keepin' on"

Make a great day !
 

·
Registered
General Contractor - Residential
Joined
·
705 Posts
@Kowboy #25

@Half-fast Eddie #27

Gentlemen, gentlemen......


You are each correct in your respective perspectives .....

Often, others' interpretations, outside our individual influence, dictate
circumstances. Most of us might share a story of an asinine
interpretation of a code.

Sometimes we must push back; sometimes we must accede and
"keep on keepin' on"

Make a great day !
👍🏻 Blessed are the peacemakers
 

·
Designer/Contractor
Joined
·
6,636 Posts
You need to do a bit more research. The coffee in question was not at the machine manufacturer's recommended temperature. The woman offered to settle for her hospital bills, but some dumbass at Mickey D's decided to f$%k with the wrong little old lady.

And an attitude change toward the ADA is in order here also. These aren't mere code violations, this is civil rights law. The building code dictates the position and size of your business's sign out front. Civil rights law keeps you from putting "Whites only"on the sign.

A professional contractor has an obligation to know and obey the rules. I don't wanna hear the whiney-boy hacks that don't.
The coffee issue is correct, apparently the woman sustained 3rd degree burns when the paper cup dissolved when she had it nestled between her crotch (which was a stupid place to put it) but the rest of this post is a bunch of hogwash.

The ADA laws are specifically designed to punish people and are a gold mine for lawyers which is why they are so intolerant. If the goal was to provide a service to the handicapped then the first rule would be an opportunity to fix the problem(s) rather than just a way to churn money (many cases are resolved out of court with a payment and never fixing the so called problem), they also would have flexibility in the interpretation without the splitting of hairs that is so prevalent.
It's a toxic law, so typical of so much of our government where money isn't any problem because they're spending our money, not theirs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
1. The ADA laws are specifically designed to punish people and 2. are a gold mine for lawyers which is why they are so intolerant. 3. If the goal was to provide a service to the handicapped then the first rule would be an opportunity to fix the problem(s)
I added numbers to your comments. 1 is wrong, it was created to assist handicapped people get around buildings and such. 2 is correct, but lawyers find gold everywhere. 3 is wrong. The ADA code/law has no teeth, no enforcement power. Cities will refuse a permit or CofO if you don’t comply with the code, but unlike a speeding ticket they have no power to fine you. It takes a civil lawsuit to punish the building owner. Theoretically a complaint is filed and the owner corrects the problem. Unfortunately the lawyers have fast tracked the lawsuits. And the courts don’t throw them out.
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
No it’s not, the gc should build what’s on the plans. That’s why you hire a licensed design professional.
You're an absolute idiot if you follow this advice. I've seen winding stairs that could not be built to code as drawn. So go ahead, whip out your beloved plans and show them to the inspector as he red tags you. I'm sure your archy is going to reimburse you for the rebuild.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
You missed the point. The AoR is responsible for code compliance in the design. The gc should be giving feedback for things that can’t be built, and suggesting improvements or better ways to do things, and pointing our obvious code violations. If you’re going to pull full responsibilty on the gc, why do we need architects?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,441 Posts
I understand you have to make changes, to meet specs. BUT.....That switch is higher than we normally put them. Admittedly, I've only been in trades for a while, but 48 1/2" down from ceiling to top of box is standard. That makes it about 48 1/2" up to top of box.
Why did they install this box at the wrong height?
Doesn't matter now.
 

·
Designer/Contractor
Joined
·
6,636 Posts
I added numbers to your comments. 1 is wrong, it was created to assist handicapped people get around buildings and such. 2 is correct, but lawyers find gold everywhere. 3 is wrong. The ADA code/law has no teeth, no enforcement power. Cities will refuse a permit or CofO if you don’t comply with the code, but unlike a speeding ticket they have no power to fine you. It takes a civil lawsuit to punish the building owner. Theoretically a complaint is filed and the owner corrects the problem. Unfortunately the lawyers have fast tracked the lawsuits. And the courts don’t throw them out.
1. If it was created to assist people then it would have specifically been written to give an opportunity to correct the problem and also would be more flexible, would have had ranges to comply instead of being so absolute and also wouldn't have been so complicated. It's designed to screw over the design and construction industry by creating another gold mine for lawyers.

3. It is a law, not a code and is designed to screw over the working class by allowing lawyers to file complaints and receive outrageous amounts of money by doing so. There's been numerous exposes of this being done and the problem being forgotten about as soon as the extortion money has been paid. Tell anyone who has ever run afoul of the ADA that there is no enforcement mechanism.

Another point about this overreach of a law is it keeps expanding into more and more areas of all of our lives. It also keeps getting more and more complicated as all government practices do. It's a prime example of the saying 'the road to he!! is paved with good intentions' although in this case it's clear the intentions were never good to begin with. It was written by lawyers for lawyers benefits.
 

·
Kowboy
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Rio:

Familiarize yourself with the drawings and specifications of the jobs you do and know the ADA and local codes, and I promise you, you'll never have any trouble with either.
 

·
Designer/Contractor
Joined
·
6,636 Posts
Rio:

Familiarize yourself with the drawings and specifications of the jobs you do and know the ADA and local codes, and I promise you, you'll never have any trouble with either.
I'm on the design side these days. We sub out the ADA stuff to a specialist, it's too dangerous to touch it, too easy to get screwed by this malevolent system. Everything on this thread is backing up that decision. Incidentally I think it's California who has somewhat come to their senses and now allows a range that systems have to fall within, think it's Cali that does that now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,617 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Pfffttt. It's a binder with some simple easy-to-read-and-comprehend dimensioned drawings in it. Geesh.
Right. They have done a very good job of providing clear guidelines.

And like many government things, the ADA was well-intentioned. Unfortunately the government and lawyers have mucked it up.
 
21 - 40 of 62 Posts
Top