Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am in the process of replacing old galvinized pipe with copper, but I'm also considering using the Ace Duraflow system of an epoxy coating inside the galvinized pipes. Has anyone used the product before? What are the pros and cons of the epoxy coating? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
Personally I would stick with copper if for no other reason than it is easy to work with and has a long proven track record.
I went to their site and a few others. This is a very intriguing concept and if done properly should make pipes last forever. I noticed that they only offer a 10 yr. warrantee and new copper is going to last far beyond that without the treatment. I guess that it all boils down to how much you want to spend and how long you intend to stay in the house. If you plan on being there for over 50 yrs. you may want to consider it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
How long has Ace been around, and how long has copper been around?

I would go with the one thats been around longer, that being copper?

Bernie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
If you have good access to the plumbing, tear out the galvanized and replace it with copper. Relining pipe should only be an alternative when the lines are buried in walls and slabs. Copper is cheap and can be installed quickly. You also have the advantage of resizing sections if water delivery is insufficicient. Plus, copper joints are more streamlined than galvanized, thus less pressure drop across the fittings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
repiping is not so cheap or quick

I am going to respectfully disagree. I am in the process of getting bids on repipe, and so far, they are all telling me $7500-$9000 just to do the horizontal pipes, and I only have a 2250 square foot house. They are complaining that I have blown-in insulation (I didn't do it) and that will make it even more expensive. My neighbor did the horizontals 5 years ago and is now having problems with the verticals. Juxtapose this with my quote on ace duraflo. $8000. I think I'll take my chances on new technology that seems to last! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
galvanised pipe replacement

galvanised pipe restoration is very tricky because many pipe bends in old pipes tend to be very thin and the the dry sand cleaning (sandblasting)that is used by all companies tends to make holes in the thin sections of the pipe.Sandblasting can only be used for a few minutes and the pipe residue cannot be removed completely.therefore the epoxy used on the inside of the pipewill not adhere on partially dirty pipes. There is a company that has a patented wet cleaning method that will guarantee completely clean pipes and complete adherance of the epoxy. It has been proven in over 50 000 installations.
Their name is ***********************
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
I am going to respectfully disagree. I am in the process of getting bids on repipe, and so far, they are all telling me $7500-$9000 just to do the horizontal pipes, and I only have a 2250 square foot house. They are complaining that I have blown-in insulation (I didn't do it) and that will make it even more expensive. My neighbor did the horizontals 5 years ago and is now having problems with the verticals. Juxtapose this with my quote on ace duraflo. $8000. I think I'll take my chances on new technology that seems to last! :)

If you actually go through with it would you please post the results here. I'm curious because I've heard a lot of horror stories of pipe blast through and then they had to be replaced jacking the cost way up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
If you actually go through with it would you please post the results here. I'm curious because I've heard a lot of horror stories of pipe blast through and then they had to be replaced jacking the cost way up.
I second NH's comments... i am also interrested in knowing the outcome. This has been a topic of debate for a while on this forum and others.
 

·
the pipe master
Joined
·
501 Posts
Hard to know what to tell you without specifics like how the house is constructed (what type of walls, floors, roofing, size of current pipes and there condition) and what part of the country you are located in. I think both estimates sound a bit high, but with out knowing the previously stated variables I can't help you. If I had to take a wild guess, I would tend to agree with the last 3 responses. The Achilles heal of the duraflow system is that if your pipes are bad enough to need repiping or coating, there is a good possibility that you will have a least one break when they blow the abrasives thru the lines. Those leaks usually end up being in inaccessible locations. That means you will have to cut or jackhammer open something to fix it and that defeats the whole purpose of pipe coating. In my area, repiping is usually about half the cost of coating, comes with a better warranty, and is very non-invasive. In fact, some of my customers that where not present during the job initially didn't even understand what was done.

Just my .02

P.s. Repiping is my specialty. I've repiped far more than a thousand homes, so my opinion could be considered biased.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Hard to know what to tell you without specifics like how the house is constructed (what type of walls, floors, roofing, size of current pipes and there condition) and what part of the country you are located in. I think both estimates sound a bit high, but with out knowing the previously stated variables I can't help you. If I had to take a wild guess, I would tend to agree with the last 3 responses. The Achilles heal of the duraflow system is that if your pipes are bad enough to need repiping or coating, there is a good possibility that you will have a least one break when they blow the abrasives thru the lines. Those leaks usually end up being in inaccessible locations. That means you will have to cut or jackhammer open something to fix it and that defeats the whole purpose of pipe coating. In my area, repiping is usually about half the cost of coating, comes with a better warranty, and is very non-invasive. In fact, some of my customers that where not present during the job initially didn't even understand what was done.

Just my .02

P.s. Repiping is my specialty. I've repiped far more than a thousand homes, so my opinion could be considered biased.
I tend to agree, although this subject is interesing to me. As one who repiped my fair share of homes, I am interested to learn more about the differences.
 

·
the pipe master
Joined
·
501 Posts
Duraflow in a nut shell

Duraflow in a nut shell:

3 phases.

1. Drying. Remove stops, shower valves, main water valve and water heater. Connect equipment and blow hot dry air thru system.

2. Cleaning. Blow abrasives thru system. This removes rust on galvo and scale on copper.

3. Coating. Pump epoxy thru system. Blow excess epoxy out w/ air. Pump steam in to cure epoxy. Put every back together.

If things are going to go south, it's usually on step 2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Duraflow in a nut shell:

3 phases.

1. Drying. Remove stops, shower valves, main water valve and water heater. Connect equipment and blow hot dry air thru system.

2. Cleaning. Blow abrasives thru system. This removes rust on galvo and scale on copper.

3. Coating. Pump epoxy thru system. Blow excess epoxy out w/ air. Pump steam in to cure epoxy. Put every back together.

If things are going to go south, it's usually on step 2.
Do you guys provide this service? I have only seen the after effects of it once. I work in a high rise that had it done. They no longer can solder any pipe because it melts the plastic lining and closes the line. they are restricted to compression, sharkbite, or propress. Not discrediting what I know little about, but it seems like by the time you do all of the to a rotted copper or galvanized system, you could have repiped the entire house and given much more peace of mind to the owner.
 

·
the pipe master
Joined
·
501 Posts
NO.

I couldn't agree more, hence my answer to the first part.

Do you guys provide this service? I have only seen the after effects of it once. I work in a high rise that had it done. They no longer can solder any pipe because it melts the plastic lining and closes the line. they are restricted to compression, sharkbite, or propress. Not discrediting what I know little about, but it seems like by the time you do all of the to a rotted copper or galvanized system, you could have repiped the entire house and given much more peace of mind to the owner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Epipe liner system

I found through my investigation that the system is flawed and plumbers are not in control but rather smooth talking salesman. I called one of these companies and they said after a plumber came to fix a slab leak they came to apply epoxy liner. I have a friend in the commerical pipe business and he says he doesn't see how if they can only do it on 8 inch pipe or greater ( because a machine is sent into the pipe ) that they would let a non-plumber preform such a regulated pumbing job. He also questions the quailty of application in a 2 inch copper line with simple commpressed air blowing the epoxy thru. So we both looked into the system more and found this interesting post on-line. Copy and paste and see what you think. Add www in front because they wouldn't let me post a URL until I have made 15 posts. scribd.com/doc/23983/Pipe-Lining


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I have been around several jobs where ace duraflow was used and it seldom was a good fix there were sections of pipe that got clogged with ceramic material and had to be replaced anyway. The Gentleman performing the job were competent and had done several jobs prior. It just seems like way to much trouble as opposed to replacing pipe with the material of your choice and have piece of mind
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
It never hurts to do the research yourself. They have a website and I'm sure would be happy to answer any questions you have and provide references. Everything was a new idea at some point. Once upon a time using pipes made of copper was probably considered a flash in the pan idea as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
I'd be interested to know what homeowners insurance thinks of this type of repair. Lets say you do the Ace system and the sanblasting weakens the pipe enough that a year from now it ruptures. I'm sure Ace's warranty doesn't cover contents, so would your homeowners policy be wiling to pickup the damages if one of these pipes were to burst??

While $9000 seems like alot of money, its a fraction of the value of the house, and the contents of the house. Nothing lasts forever, and generally I would say when dealing with pressurized water, I would rather have new pipe then band-aid the original 50 year old pipe.

I say this after I started a chimney crown repair 3 weeks ago on my own house and ended up tearing the chimney back to the roof line and rebuilding it. It was too far gone and fixing the crown would have meant I would just be back on the roof 5 years from now, setting up all the staging, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
ACE's warranty DOES cover contents of the home and restores any damaged drywall to paint ready condition. Like I said it is worth it to do the research
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top