Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,195 Posts
If you let new folks (or any, for that matter) get too comfortable and casual (flexible starts, long lunches, extra breaks, etc.) early on, you can never get it back. There's a fine line between being patient with new guys getting up to speed, and letting their pace, etc. drag everyone else down. Put yourself in the boss's shoes, where at the end of each day, they know how much it cost them vs. what needed to get done....and that it's still their challenge tomorrow, etc. Understand that and it will give new, young guys some perspective. Even a nice guy boss is thinking like this, and don't be surprised when he flies off the handle from time to time. It's stressful.

I would tell those young guys to just deal with it and work to improve themselves as fast as they can. That's money in the bank for down the road.

And when they are fully pulling their weight, then maybe it's time to say something on the side about not taking and [email protected] Respectfully, but man to man., so to speak.
 

·
Radical Basement Dweller
Joined
·
23,489 Posts
"Abuse" can be in the eye of the beholder.
Is the person being called out for being late all the time....asking for time off all the time....forgetting to bring even something as basic as a pencil all the time...just "not getting it" after multiple explanations?

By today's standards, a parent spanking their child is probably viewed as abusive by many. It was accepted and commonplace when I grew up.

What one employee views as abuse by a lead may be viewed by the owners/managers as running a tight ship.

Just not enough info in the original OP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
In my late teens early 20's I worked for a guy that was laid back but let you know when you needed to step it up. His lead man was an ass. I went thru so much abuse by him it wasn't funny. I had some rough edges, to be sure, but at that age I was like a lot of young guys I was just trying to figure things out. After a few years of this I finally had it. I blew up and called him out. We were framing a 2 story and I told him I had enough of his bull**** and said meet me downstairs. ( I was probably going to get my ass kicked but I didn't care). I waited down there for a good while and he never came down. He started leaving me alone after that. I guess we teach others what we will tolerate in work relationships. I try to be aware of situations at work now that can be seen as abusive and strive to shut them down. I don't want anyone else to go thru that.
 

·
Capra Aegagrus
Remodeler
Joined
·
24,704 Posts
For a bit of perspective, try being a noob with a masonry crew. I never was, but from stories I've heard, I wouldn't make it. :LOL:
 

·
Registered
Carpentry
Joined
·
132 Posts
In my late teens early 20's I worked for a guy that was laid back but let you know when you needed to step it up. His lead man was an ass. I went thru so much abuse by him it wasn't funny. I had some rough edges, to be sure, but at that age I was like a lot of young guys I was just trying to figure things out. After a few years of this I finally had it. I blew up and called him out. We were framing a 2 story and I told him I had enough of his bull**** and said meet me downstairs. ( I was probably going to get my ass kicked but I didn't care). I waited down there for a good while and he never came down. He started leaving me alone after that. I guess we teach others what we will tolerate in work relationships. I try to be aware of situations at work now that can be seen as abusive and strive to shut them down. I don't want anyone else to go thru that.
I like this post.

If you're experienced you can probably yell back at the guy/call him out.

If you're not experienced you should be more respectful and say "im not in the business of being disrespected, i'll be happy to leave if you're gonna disrespect me."
 

·
Registered
Carpentry
Joined
·
132 Posts
For a bit of perspective, try being a noob with a masonry crew. I never was, but from stories I've heard, I wouldn't make it. :LOL:
I quit after 3 days on a high production commercial masonry crew that was behind schedule
 

·
Registered
Carpentry
Joined
·
132 Posts
... 10 hr days, pushing myself to complete muscle failure, could feel my spine pushing into my seat on the drive home. Lead tender was an MMA fighter that loved cocaine. Guy on the lull did a lot of time in prison, tried to fight the masons. Ya it was pretty hardcore. Framing was like chearleading compared to that chit.
 

·
Safety Third
Red Seal Carpenter
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
Man when I was starting out, abuse was just how the day went. It drove me to drink, a lot, but it drove me to succeed, and I will confidently tell you I'm a better carpenter than any of those leads. Some people don't need that kind of push, many do. Others are too dang soft and bail. Bye Felicia. I'm the lead now, it's a completely different perspective, full of so much more stress than you have now. If you don't want to deal with an abusive lead, ask for your own crew and run it your way. And if you don't want to have to rip stuff out and re-do it, do it right the first time. Don't use schedule as an excuse, you can be pushing on time and still execute well, you see it time and time again from the guys on this forum.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
Man when I was starting out, abuse was just how the day went. It drove me to drink, a lot, but it drove me to succeed, and I will confidently tell you I'm a better carpenter than any of those leads. Some people don't need that kind of push, many do. Others are too dang soft and bail. Bye Felicia. I'm the lead now, it's a completely different perspective, full of so much more stress than you have now. If you don't want to deal with an abusive lead, ask for your own crew and run it your way. And if you don't want to have to rip stuff out and re-do it, do it right the first time. Don't use schedule as an excuse, you can be pushing on time and still execute well, you see it time and time again from the guys on this forum.
Completely agree. Men have gone soft and western civilization as a whole is suffering for it. I can’t name a good mechanic or a neat electrician or a reasonable plumber. The trouble with making doctors wages as a tradesman is that no one understands what a tradesmen does anymore!

I shouldn’t have to explain to a customer that there is a price difference between changing out facia vs soffit. The lack of skills or common sense is maddening. Although, anyone listening to a conversation between Carl, who built my website, and myself would think that I was completely computer illiterate. I am.

The big difference is that I’m not trying to be a computer programmer or a website builder. Construction sites are now full of NEW guys that know how to build a website or run an Excel spreadsheet but can’t find a framing hammer with both hands....much less have the sense to bring their own lunch because GrubHub doesn’t deliver.

Asking a man to know how to write code if he’s applying for a programmer position is acceptable.

Asking a man to work in the sun and be corrected on the spot instead of written counseling in the HR department is mean.
When construction sites become google offices with safe spaces and private rooms for men having bad days we are all out of work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
I've worked under azzholes, and I've worked under hardazzes. Only once have I worked under a dipchit disguised as a hardass competent leader.

We were on a challenging framing job, working long hours with 2 hour trip time each way every day. Club house for a golf course where the original framer got booted for incompetence. Obviously behind schedule and quality issues from the get go. Original framer hadn't even gotten to rolling joists yet.

Hawaiian Dave was the crew chief and always yelling at us. I can take being yelled at and berated if I earned it. But this dude was just straight flexin. Lunch time one day, bout day 4 on that job. Lunch time and Hawaiian Dave falls asleep in his truck. He never did eat with the rest of us. Lunch time over and we just let him sleep. Much more peaceful that way.
Bout 1:30 one of the 3 company owners rolls up to check on the job. "Where's Dave?" Says he.
We all point to his pimped out F150 where he's still snoozin' at the steering wheel.
Owner man was a cool cat. Didn't see much drama, but never saw Hawaiian Dave again either.
Karma.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,566 Posts
I can’t remember any jobs where the foreman said “take as long as you like, forget the schedule, and no problem if you screw it up and have to rip it all out”.
No, but there are plenty of sites where the lead isn’t really a leader, but is a motivated go getter that doesn’t know how to set up others around him to be successful and then yell at them because he is not as good as he should be.

Plenty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Carpentry
Joined
·
132 Posts
Leads do get pissed and upset from time to time. But don't put up with overt toxic rage or disrespect. Your mental health is not worth it. Construction jobs are a dime a dozen. Think you're working for an elite company and dont want to leave? Elite companies do not let tyrants terrorize their employees.
 

·
Goin' Down in Flames....
Highwayman
Joined
·
5,652 Posts
I personally never allowed bosses to yell at me.

I told one he was not allowed to raise his voice to me, and the way he spoke to me is the way I would speak to him.

I also told him that whatever he wanted done all he had to do was ask, because I worked for him.

My own policy is to not speak to others how I would not want to be spoken to. Sometimes I succeed. 😳

I think a lead or an owner can run a tight and disciplined operation without raising his voice. First thing is to be disciplined yourself. 👍


I think if you get to the point where you are yelling at someone all the time, you should do both yourself and the employee a favor and let them go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
As a young lead carpenter (19 yr old). Leading multi million dollar homes and building projects, and putting on my bags every single day to surpass expectations as often as I can muster.

I can attest to a lack of accountability and a surplus of abuse in the workplace. And yes that’s common, and yes I deal with it from my superiors, but I personally try to be opposite, it’s true that people don’t work harder for someone that doesn’t respect them. I’ve had people get hurt on the job because they were angry or emotional because of irrational attitudes and overall an unprofessional outlook. I try to make the site as enjoyable and respectful as possible (while of course having banter and jokes, this is still framing guys)

but I can find that with the two worst & newest guys, I can outwork a crew with a 15 yr experienced lead and the next two best framers. And I believe the reason to be the environment I try to encourage. We work more efficiently and harder together when we want to help eachother out because we genuinely care.

i know these environments are few and far between. But the factors weigh against me, experience, age, physical strength. But my result is quicker, cleaner, and more consistent all the time.
 

·
Registered
Carpentry
Joined
·
132 Posts
As a young lead carpenter (19 yr old). Leading multi million dollar homes and building projects, and putting on my bags every single day to surpass expectations as often as I can muster.

I can attest to a lack of accountability and a surplus of abuse in the workplace. And yes that’s common, and yes I deal with it from my superiors, but I personally try to be opposite, it’s true that people don’t work harder for someone that doesn’t respect them. I’ve had people get hurt on the job because they were angry or emotional because of irrational attitudes and overall an unprofessional outlook. I try to make the site as enjoyable and respectful as possible (while of course having banter and jokes, this is still framing guys)

but I can find that with the two worst & newest guys, I can outwork a crew with a 15 yr experienced lead and the next two best framers. And I believe the reason to be the environment I try to encourage. We work more efficiently and harder together when we want to help eachother out because we genuinely care.

i know these environments are few and far between. But the factors weigh against me, experience, age, physical strength. But my result is quicker, cleaner, and more consistent all the time.
Ya, it's a psychological fact that stressed employees are less productive than happy ones. You're ahead of the game for picking up on that.
 
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Top