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Unbuilder of Eyesores
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I did not expect the blinders that many wear in the profession.
Blinders? Dude you actually said this:
Any thoughts on encouraging trades at large to improve their image and attitudes?
What is your mental model of what a contractor is?

Reason I ask is some people picture a thin hungry man with dirty ripped jeans driving a beat up van who will toil all day for his lofty lord as long as he ends up with enough scratch to bring home a large cheese pizza and a 2 liter bottle of coke for the rugrats.

Your mentor is lamenting that contractors are aware of their value and he/she can’t make the returns that would be ideal.

Your mentors got blinders and now so do you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Mostly what I see wrong with flippers is someone doing the bare minimum, using the cheapest labor and materials to get their "investment" off their hands to cash out.

There are some people who do work for cheap. Mostly skilled people who don't know they should really be making much more.

And James, please tell us your trade.
I am focused on home theater construction as a part-time activity. At an early age, I found that I could make more money pursuing my computer skills than being full-time focused on a trade. I served in the United States Coast Guard and was an electrician's mate. What else would you like to know?

I think you are correct that most skilled people don't know they should really be making much more. I think the flippers would like a good way of quickly identifying these types of professionals.
 

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Unbuilder of Eyesores
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Btw nothing wrong with guys who fit that description, but it doesn’t describe all contractors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
No way you’re getting a service call from anybody operating legally for under $150. You and I both know that’s what was meant by “would not put on his pants in the morning for…“. We can’t all have attended Charm School.
Not true. I offer my services via sites such as Handy.com and Thumbtack.com. Great way to keep up the income.
 

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Unbuilder of Eyesores
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I think you are correct that most skilled people don't know they should really be making much more. I think the flippers would like a good way of quickly identifying these types of professionals.
Here’s how you identify them: call them up, tell them you’re a flipper. If they dont hang up, you’ve found one.
 

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Carpenter
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104 Posts
I consider the individual I posted about as absolutely brilliant and someone who I want to follow in their footsteps. Of course, I expected lots of ignorant posts and was hopeful that someone could provide insight into the attitudes of contractors and ways to mitigate it for learning purposes. I did not expect the blinders that many wear in the profession.
If he was that brilliant he would understand contractors have various levels of overhead and it costs money to leave the house. It costs some more than others. I'd be willing to bet as a one man show, I have some of the lowest overhead of anyone on this site. But even for me a simple service call is going to cost $150 or more. We know our numbers, he doesn't. No contractor here is going to risk a loss to maximize the profit if a flipper.
 

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Goin' Down in Flames....
Highwayman
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I consider the individual I posted about as absolutely brilliant and someone who I want to follow in their footsteps. Of course, I expected lots of ignorant posts and was hopeful that someone could provide insight into the attitudes of contractors and ways to mitigate it for learning purposes. I did not expect the blinders that many wear in the profession.
I have zero intention of “mitigating” my attitude.

I know exactly what I’m worth, and like I’ve said a hundred times, if you or anyone else doesn’t like my price, you have 2 options: do it your damn self, or hire someone else.

The fact is, very few potential customers can physically do what I do, and even less have the technical knowledge, experience, expertise, or discipline to do it.

I can stay home and go broke, I refuse to go build someone else’s dream house, or make someone else money, while I go broke.

I won’t even give bids to “investors” or flippers. They can’t afford me, and I refuse to produce garbage.

And as per your own statement, since you are not professionally employed in the construction trades, you don’t belong here. DIYChatroom.com is the place for you.
 

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Sawdust follows Me Everywhere
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I consider the individual I posted about as absolutely brilliant and someone who I want to follow in their footsteps. Of course, I expected lots of ignorant posts and was hopeful that someone could provide insight into the attitudes of contractors and ways to mitigate it for learning purposes. I did not expect the blinders that many wear in the profession.
We gave you insights of us 'ignorant' contractors. We want to get paid so we can operate our businesses at a profit. You know, the only reason we started our businesses. If I wanted to make a wage, I'd work for someone else.
 

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Remodel
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I thought it was cool that he decided to purchase Pro-Press equipment off ebay and hire a local high school student that attends the local trade high school (Prince Tech) as a lower-cost alternative.
Congratulations, you want to emulate a slimeball.

The fact that you think that's clever is part of the reason flippers have such a bad reputation.

A buddy of mine worked flipping for a real investor. He may buy a whole block or more of single family houses, use all pros, and turned out beautiful permitted work. The investor made a ton of money because my buddy would figure out the sale price, and renovation cost, so the investor knew what he had to offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
Sounds more like the investor wants dirt cheap prices so they can take the profit instead of it going to the people who actually do the work.
So why is an investor putting up capital wanting to maximize their return on investment a bad thing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
Congratulations, you want to emulate a slimeball.

The fact that you think that's clever is part of the reason flippers have such a bad reputation.

A buddy of mine worked flipping for a real investor. He may buy a whole block or more of single family houses, use all pros, and turned out beautiful permitted work. The investor made a ton of money because my buddy would figure out the sale price, and renovation cost, so the investor knew what he had to offer.
We can do name calling but that is a sign of unintelligence. Many flippers have a bad reputation because they use overpriced exploitative contractors who force them to take financial shortcut in order to make a profit.
 

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Goin' Down in Flames....
Highwayman
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Great. 🙄

Another Know-nothing, know-it-all blowhard, who doesn’t belong posting here.

Heard all the $))t before. Yours is no different, and you’re still not right.
 

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Not true. I offer my services via sites such as Handy.com and Thumbtack.com. Great way to keep up the income.
You are part time. That is a completely different thing. Try making a living on 300 bucks a day, every day. You will go broke. Or you will just scrape by. And you won't get two gigs every day, and then you start losing money.

I can't move my truck for 150 bucks.

Sure, it goes the the job, but I would be better off staying home.

What is your full time profession?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

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Hack
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3,091 Posts
I thought it was cool that he decided to purchase Pro-Press equipment off ebay and hire a local high school student that attends the local trade high school (Prince Tech) as a lower-cost alternative.

The best analogy that comes to mind right now is the days when you could get your local neighborhood kid to cut grass at $50 a lawn whereas professional lawn companies now want contracts and other stipulations that did not exist before.

His foreign contractors seem to go a little farther and not everything is a "change order". The agreement feels like they are happy with making their daily target rate. He purchases all of the material they need everyone is happy.
So who supervises the entry level employee to ensure there's no issues with their work? If there's issues with the work, who handles the warranty or repair?
That's all part of the VALUE in dealing with a proper contractor.
And if you reply that the GC or the investor handles those issues you're failing to realize that it's just the same cycle of "value solutions" that lead to the continued piss poor reputation that flipping gets.
A good contractor isn't put to rob you.
They set their own market VALUE.
Investors just need to make the smart money move and choose the one that gives the best return, and that includes accounting for future issues like guaranteed, or warranty work.
 

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Sounds like you are proud for short changing your inexperienced high school kids, And all of your supplies from eBay!

I get the feeling you’ve never owned your own business?
 

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We can do name calling but that is a sign of unintelligence. Many flippers have a bad reputation because they use overpriced exploitative contractors who force them to take financial shortcut in order to make a profit.

I dont know you or the dumb ass you are talking about - but I promise you based on your posts I'm 10 times the builder either of you will Ever be

you don't produce quality projects with cheap ass labor and contractors. Thats not debatable in this century

You can do a rehab and do quality work and make money - you can make more using chit bags and turning out junk. That's why chit box flippers are not looked at as good contractors or men in the world of quality contractors and tradesmen.

Good contractors and tradesmen make good money. That's it. They aren't working for peanuts. It's called leverage. I'd bet money my lowest guy could build circles around you wanna bes - you pay because you can't do - or hire wanna bes and *****
 
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