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Ran across a real estate investor who is purchasing lots of properties in the Hartford Connecticut area. He indicated a level of frustration with the trades in their availability and rates. He told me a story of a plumber who told him that he would not put on his pants in the morning for No less than $150. This investor found this attitude vile and disgusting and now only hires foreign born labor that legally immigrated. He believes they did not grow up with a sense of entitlement and are willing to work harder for their money than those born here.

Any thoughts on encouraging trades at large to improve their image and attitudes?
 

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Goin' Down in Flames....
Highwayman
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And what are you, a tradesman, or a real estate investor?

For what it’s worth, I refuse to work for real estate investors, they are, in my experience, universally bottom feeding scumbags who want $)(tty work for cheap prices.

I don’t even waste time returning their calls.

And my minimum is more than $150, and I don’t apologize for that one bit.

So why don’t you tell us what your real beef is?
 

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What that tells me is he has no idea what it costs to be in business in today's environment... it costs money just to get out of bed if you are business owner... literally, whether you have work that day or not... $150 (even for a half-day) would only be $37/hour and doesn't even pay the bills never mind providing for his family... the sad thing is, during a real estate BOOM, which has ZERO to do with investor skill that he's profiting from, he wants to rake in top dollar for the work of others while complaining about others wanting the same...

If your post was talking about work ethic sans money, it could be a discussion, but until the next downturn, it's going to be hard to find pro's who are just going to give it away... availability for someone with a good reputation will ALWAYS be an issue...

I guess the question could be asked in reverse... why are they so available and at such a cheap cost?
 

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Carpenter
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I'd put my pants on for less than $150 but it takes more to get me out the door.

What image and attitude do we need to improve? Are you saying we are all entitled? The fact that we want to profit so our business can survive? Is he hiring legitimate contractors, properly licensed and insured? Or is he like every RE investor I've met who is willing to hire home depot day labor for nickels on the dollar?
 

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Builder
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Ran across a real estate investor who is purchasing lots of properties in the Hartford Connecticut area. He indicated a level of frustration with the trades in their availability and rates. He told me a story of a plumber who told him that he would not put on his pants in the morning for No less than $150. This investor found this attitude vile and disgusting and now only hires foreign born labor that legally immigrated. He believes they did not grow up with a sense of entitlement and are willing to work harder for their money than those born here.

Any thoughts on encouraging trades at large to improve their image and attitudes?
Nothing is wrong with the trademans attitude. Please give me that contact number I don't think my primer would return an email for 150 bucks 😆

Developers are generally cheap asses
 

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:cool::cool:
And what are you, a tradesman, or a real estate investor?

For what it’s worth, I refuse to work for real estate investors, they are, in my experience, universally bottom feeding scumbags who want $)(tty work for cheap prices.

I don’t even waste time returning their calls.

And my minimum is more than $150, and I don’t apologize for that one bit.

So why don’t you tell us what your real beef is?
Don't hold back bubba....it ain't good for ya.
 

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Remodel
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'
Any thoughts on encouraging trades at large to improve their image and attitudes?
'

Encourage people to improve their image / attitude?

In the sense that that's part of their marketing and sales / branding, businessmen should know what their brand stands for and stick to it. I definitely encourage that.

I heard a funny story about a guy walking into a flower shop and asking for soup.

Nobody should set up their brand / service, etc to please someone who is never going to be their customer
 

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Ran across a real estate investor who is purchasing lots of properties in the Hartford Connecticut area. He indicated a level of frustration with the trades in their availability and rates.
I ran across a RE investor this morning. I'm frustrated with his expectations regarding scheduling and at how little he was willing to pay. How do we get these investors to improve their attitudes and unwillingness to pay experienced tradesmen for quality work?
 

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Ran across a real estate investor who is purchasing lots of properties in the Hartford Connecticut area. He indicated a level of frustration with the trades in their availability and rates. He told me a story of a plumber who told him that he would not put on his pants in the morning for No less than $150. This investor found this attitude vile and disgusting and now only hires foreign born labor that legally immigrated. He believes they did not grow up with a sense of entitlement and are willing to work harder for their money than those born here.

Any thoughts on encouraging trades at large to improve their image and attitudes?
I'm more inclined to improve the image of fast buck "investors" rather good guys and gals that work for a living.

If there's any one reason why the majority of subs and small volume licensed contractors require a chunk of cash up front with THEIR contract/work agreement...it's due to people that call themselves "investors." Buying a junker of a property for taxes and a tax bill title isn't an investor...it's just someone else taking clouded title and hoping to palm off the property after spending less than the normal rates for construction guys to schedule in the job...while postponing a real-2022 era value-job.

Not sure what that "investor" would charge to put his/her/it's pants on each morning....but this little minimum fee, dray charge, site visit charge, estimation charge...any charge involved where the contractor or contractor's sub has to be on one site in lieu of another site should be considered legit enough to take someone at their word. The attitude isn't vile nor disgusting...that plumber isn't getting paid by the hour...he has to pull that job together from someone that usually has no clue about what he/she/it just purchased at a discount.

Someone asked me a long time ago...cold calling around...."how much would you charge to build a 1400 sq.ft. ranch with full basement and attached garage?"

"Give me a second" I said "looks like 1400 ft on full foundation and walled garage.....hmmmmm....$1.3 million. I round down from $1.335 million just because you caught me in a good mood."

"What?" she yodeled. "$1,300,000 for a 1400 sq.ft. house?!! You can't be serious!!!"

"Nope...." say I "YOU can't be serious!" and hung up.


If there's a vile attitude problem...it's from tire kickers, bottom feeding morons and those that waste my time trying to get information or a free estimate. My fee is my fee...none of anyone else's bizness how it comes about. I stayed pretty busy for many years just having a good $number that they could either use me for....or shop around to other general contractors....but ONLY after I get paid in full for looking at a 1400sq.ft. ranch on full basement with attached garage to come up with a legitimate bottom line for everything I think my crews and subs will need...most importantly, what I need to pull on my britches each day.

If someone wants to talk serious....you better talk the talk, walk the walk and pay my pal at PayPal before I head your way. I've spent enough time bird-dogging bad potentials to prove myself. I've got 50 years in now....that "investor" has to prove him/her/itself to me.
Motor vehicle Wheel Plant Automotive tire Vehicle

(Big Dan T - 1983; before I starting dying my hair gray.)


Didn't McGovern run for president once?
 

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I spend time on the Bigger pockets forum and other FB investor groups and they ***** about contractors all the time. Its comical to a point....
 

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I ran across a RE investor this morning. I'm frustrated with his expectations regarding scheduling and at how little he was willing to pay. How do we get these investors to improve their attitudes and unwillingness to pay experienced tradesmen for quality work?
In a few months when you're pulling into a McDonald's drive thru....you can ask that "Investor" what he think he was doing wrong to go broke,

Too many idiot people watch those shows on HGTV about real estate; Love It or Flip It; Fast Buck Professional That No Longer Stands On a Street Corner...crap like that has definitely raised the expectations of many people that want fast money.

Especially the con-guys that sell books; seats to seminars; software for REInvestors and Lead Sheets for Upcoming Properties (ie. foreclosures and tax sales found in the legal organ of the city or county posting the legal notices). There are scammers on every corner taking advantage of folks that just aren't going to make the grade or the creditworthiness to actually buy distressed property and make a ton of $$money by fixing it up.

For me...by experience...the last thing I need to purchase is a property that says...."distress sale", "tax sale", "condemned property" or "limited Title." The worse being Condemned Property which almost always has to be brought up to current code status. There will ALWAYS be some idiot that thinks they can by pass permitting only to piss off a neighbor that ratz them out or just a general hobby of Code Enforcements that may follow 20 yard roll offs right up to a job site under construction....or a load of framing; anything on a big truck in a residential area on a weekend delivery....might as well assume that the owner has some 'splaining to do to the Magistrate Judge...plus penalty and NEW permit fees...only to find out how much replacing old 1/2 in galvanized supply lines will be; replace drains as needed as well as venting; the HVAC may be a chore to deal with to meet the conditions of returns needed per cubic area and supplies to each bedroom. Or better still...R&R old wiring runs (there's still cloth covered copper just waiting for a new permit one day) and receptacle, switches and lamp boxes to accommodate fixtures to tag into the new 14/2 w Ground service.

Everything else makes you a non-senior position in title. A cloud that not everyone wishes to purchase. For the most part...the scammers teaching rarely dwell on the negatives because the less than astute will find out...this isn't the business for them. Too many times...the end result will be a number of subs that won't get paid anytime soon and can only get in line to file a lien for the same property.
 

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Unbuilder of Eyesores
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I spend time on the Bigger pockets forum and other FB investor groups and they * about contractors all the time. Its comical to a point....
A buddy of mine is a flipper. Now, I've bought and sold real estate, at auction and otherwise, but I'm not a "flipper". But we shoot the **** sometimes about business and the stuff he says makes me cringe. Low dollar buy-to-sell developers (flippers) want everything done for craigslist crackhead prices, and that's pretty much the end of the story. They want to find a seasoned guy with tools to show up right away and use the investor's crappy materials to do ace work for $25/hr all in.

Slumlords are cheap too but they don't hire much out in my experience. They rarely do any work on the property at all. I respect slumlords a lot more than flippers. They know their line and they walk it. If you move into a property that's a slum, and has been a slum since before you were born, don't expect the landlord to fix anything with materials costing more than duct tape and you'll have no problems. It's a partnership. You need a place and can't afford anything nice. They need a tenant and don't want to do any capital expenditures. Win win.

Flippers, on the other hand, are big-headed oafs who think the sqft prices in their spreadsheets that they used to analyze the deal on the decaying mushroom house before they bought it are as good as a signed proposal from a guy who knows how to repair decaying mushroom houses. So what happens? They hire crap workers in many cases and pay them crap money to install crap products.

My brother in law bought a flip house. It is on a really good piece of land and I don't blame him. But jesus christ the workmanship could be expected from a shoe factory worker that was given a $400 allotment for tools from home depot and thirty days to renovate with materials from Habitat for Humanity.

So **** flippers, my friend excluded.
 

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I'm with your investor friend. There is no reason for that tone,

Both myself and all my subs have way nicer ways to cleverly tell a inexperienced, know it all, dirt bag, lazy investor to go pound sand.

Tell your friend to find a better class of contractor. He wouldn't know I insulted him till about an hour later.
 

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I'm with your investor friend. There is no reason for that tone,

Both myself and all my subs have way nicer ways to cleverly tell a inexperienced, know it all, dirt bag, lazy investor to go pound sand.

Tell your friend to find a better class of contractor. He wouldn't know I insulted him till about an hour later.

My man
Tie Wood Hardwood Suit Event
 
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Unbuilder of Eyesores
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You only have to pull them up 3/4's of the way though.
I played the game "Telestrations" at a Christmas get-together. It's like the telephone game but with drawings. The word was "plumber" so I drew a man bent over with a crudely shaped tool in one hand and his butt crack showing. Rough sketch, mind you - you only get about thirty seconds.

My BIL guessed it with ease. It's a universal understanding.
 
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