no...

 

Sure.

If you want to be a hack.

 

Didn't take long to wrap this one up.

 

what about and 4x6?

 

if this is the 'outer' wall that carries the weight of the roof, do it right-that's how character is born

 

what about and 4x6?

I've seen Larry Haun do that in the video. As long as at can carry the load properly.

 

what about and 4x6?

4x4 as a header...absolutely under the right conditions.

4x6 will work also, under the right conditions....

Come on CJ, you've been around long enough to know better than ask a loaded question like this....

 

Yes I know but what, I am trying to avoid using 2 2x6's with 1/2'' OSB between them.

 

Why?

 

4x4 as a header...absolutely under the right conditions. 4x6 will work also, under the right conditions.... Come on CJ, you've been around long enough to know better than ask a loaded question like this....

This is correct, however it just looks hackish to me to see a 4x4 up there. Lol

In a pinch, I might even do it on my own project, but I doubt I would on a job for someone else.

 

I've been on more than one job where a 4x4 was called out as a header.

 

It is speced out (in DF), in some Cali work.

 

That's more work and more lumber I got to buy.

 

There are other ways to save money and improve efficiency. It takes very little time to build headers. Its basic framing. I don't mean this to sound harsh..just reality IMHO.

They do make headers in 3.5 inch and 5.5 inch thickness that have an insulated core that are rated for use as headers. They would save you time but not material costs.

 

I have found that if you do it right there are no other options..imop..

 

I don't see why not, as long as it's a short span. The rule of thumb in the old days was 4'-4x4, 6'-4x6, 8'-4x8, etc. before that I think it was a flat 2x4. I've never really understood the idea that every exterior header be a 2x12.

 

those larry haun videos are roughly 20 years old.. and those codes are too.. dont risk it go with a bigger header.. if i use 2x6 based on headroom i do 3 ply sometimes 4 ply

 

?????..... 3 ply or 4 ply of what

 

Absolutely you can use a 4x4 or 2-2x4s for headers.

depends on the span of course and the width of the house and what it is carrying.

You are in Alabama, so no snow load of course, and house is about 28 feet in width. You are allowed to go about 42" for a man door let's say. Or if the house is wider, then about 35" for a door.

Personally I like the 4x4 because of the ease of install but I actually preferred to make the header out of 2x4 with Ply. no glue, 16d sinkers top & bottom oh, 6" o.c.


Andy.

 

Andy.... why'd you say "no glue".... no advantage/unecessary????

Just old custom, I've always thrown some LN or PL in the ply???

 

Yes we use 2x4 headers all the time in trade school. We only have to do go down 12'' for slab footings. I think our codes are a little lose.

 

Yes, no, it depends... As some mentioned, some AHJ's may like to see it / way they were trained like me. Scipio makes some good points though a few might mention there is more than sheer load like lateral, etc... Personally as mentioned I was taught to do it that way so I still do it, especially as I think it helps make it more of a single & stronger unit especially when you are dealing with wood that maybe slightly wet / has some shrinking still to do

As for foam or going old style with drywall in the center - glue wont do anything, only when the two pieces of lumber are touching which is one reason why I place the foam on one side or the other. For example if there is a slight chance that an awning maybe installed I will place the foam towards the inside

 

We just nailed the 1/2'' OSB with 8 penny nails and the header with 16 penny nails.

 

We just nailed the 1/2'' OSB with 8 penny nails and the header with 16 penny nails.

Why bother with the 8d's? Especially since they'll shine through.

 

This thread bugs me. Not saying anyone here, but I've had the same people say you can't use a 4x4 (or 2 2x4s) on a door use undesized 2x12s elsewhere.

Use your local code and look up the header tables. They are conservative.

 

Amen on the code tables, but with that he falls under the 2009 codes at minimum & it specifically calls for 2 2x unless the opening is under 4'. With that though he also falls under the 2009 IECC at minimum that states in table 1102.4.2 that all corners & headers must be insulated thus eliminating the single piece exact size exclusion

As for the 2 2x12 - in a 2x6 wall I rather use that & insulate it with foam panels or spray as it will outperform the use of cripples & filling in that area with your insulation of choice

 

Timberframers use 8x8's and bigger...they must be hacks for not using 2x8's and ply instead.

Seriously though, if code allows it, I don't see anything wrong with a properly sized solid header. IMO it is stronger than 2 boards nailed together.

Sometimes it's ok to think outside of the standard carpentry "box", there is more than one way to skin a cat...that's how new things are invented.

 

Seriously though, if code allows it, I don't see anything wrong with a properly sized solid header. IMO it is stronger than 2 boards nailed together.

:thumbsup:
Yes, I would like to see calculations that show 2- 2X6's with plywood is stronger, both vertically and laterally than a DF 4X6.

Other than that, refer to IRC 502.5(1) and (2).

 

Biggest problem with 4x4's (properly sized of course) is they twist. Back in the olden days, like kiteman said, 4x4's where common for 36" exterior openings single roof load only.... and just about everywhere interior non bearing. Setting pocket doors genearlly sucked. Rocking always sucked over them and trimming a house, well learned to abuse drywall for decent miters (or rolled casing 1/8" + in many cases)

 

Biggest problem with 4x4's (properly sized of course) is they twist.)

I have just as much trouble with twisted 2x12's. I've also ran into a lot of "fake" 4x12's where they just used a 2x4 on the bottom of the outside.

Like the guy who framed my house did.

 

Could that have been a box beam header?

Those are quite handy and are code compliant.

I think R602.2 ( if I remember right).

Andy.

 

Could that have been a box beam header? Those are quite handy and are code compliant. I think R602.2 ( if I remember right). Andy.

That's what I was thinking, we usually fill the back side with eps