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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Tonight I was at a public gathering place, consuming my drink and minding my own business. (It wasn't a bar.)

A gentleman sat at the table next to me and spread out his papers. He was soon joined by a second gentleman.

I quickly figured out the first guy was a GC and the second was his mark, sorry, I mean customer. This was the final meeting where they confirmed the price and signed the deal for building a new house.

Their table was 6" from mine. As soon as I realized what was going down I started paying attention. I heard every word, read pretty much every line and figure. I have never done that before but under the circumstances I was so completely intrigued I could not resist. Well, I could have but i didn't want to.

After about an hour of sleazy BS from the GC they agreed to the prices listed on the yellow legal pad. The GC copied the prices over onto another sheet and they both signed the deal.

A $176,000 deal. And the mark whipped out his checkbook and wrote a $22,000 check for the down payment. The GC snatched that check off the table like lightening.

I never heard the location or address mentioned. Trust me, I listened for it.

He had spent about 10 minutes of that time explaining why his illegals did a better job than the legal competitors. The rest of the time it was pure hucksterism on display. A con man if I ever saw one.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Four hours later I am still blinking my eyes, shaking my head, and wondering if I really saw and heard what I saw and heard. I was stunned. Still am.
 

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Tonight I was at a public gathering place, consuming my drink and minding my own business. (It wasn't a bar.)

A gentleman sat at the table next to me and spread out his papers. He was soon joined by a second gentleman.

I quickly figured out the first guy was a GC and the second was his mark, sorry, I mean customer. This was the final meeting where they confirmed the price and signed the deal for building a new house.

Their table was 6" from mine. As soon as I realized what was going down I started paying attention. I heard every word, read pretty much every line and figure. I have never done that before but under the circumstances I was so completely intrigued I could not resist. Well, I could have but i didn't want to.

After about an hour of sleazy BS from the GC they agreed to the prices listed on the yellow legal pad. The GC copied the prices over onto another sheet and they both signed the deal.

A $176,000 deal. And the mark whipped out his checkbook and wrote a $22,000 check for the down payment. The GC snatched that check off the table like lightening.

I never heard the location or address mentioned. Trust me, I listened for it.

He had spent about 10 minutes of that time explaining why his illegals did a better job than the legal competitors. The rest of the time it was pure hucksterism on display. A con man if I ever saw one.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Four hours later I am still blinking my eyes, shaking my head, and wondering if I really saw and heard what I saw and heard. I was stunned. Still am.
Living and running my business in Southern California, I hear of this "illegals are cheaper and better" pitch pretty often. I have heard of people that have been told that a contractor in CA doesn't need a license to do residential work, only commercial, and a lot of other horses**t. It's out of control, and in CA, nearly completely unpoliced.
 

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I don't use illegals, but the yellow pad, the business card, and verbal deals are 'normal' for me. I've done so few written, 'legal' proposals, I've nearly forgotten how. Crazy, but I've done the same thing as they did with nothing written anywhere. I'd go home that evening, and whip up a receipt and a summarized scope of work and e-mail it to the client. :eek:
 

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Starving Tile Artist
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Personally, I would have stood up, asked for one of his cards and called to check him out and report him if needed. I can't believe we are still just sitting around and watching the illegals and hacks do this to customers or allow customers to do this to themselves.

As citizens we are directly responsible for reporting illegal activity. We sit back and allow this kind of thing and then we complain that it occurs. If I have to pay fines if I get something wrong or do something improperly, why shouldn't I report anyone I see defrauding others.

Change is not going to happen unless we make it happen. Wake up guy's and gal's, we can't afford to sit back and allow this kind of behavior to continue.

As for the yallow legal pad, mine is a white pad but essentially the same thing occurs. You have to get the customer informed before I can submit any legal documents to him for signing.
 

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Personally, I would have stood up, asked for one of his cards and called to check him out and report him if needed. I can't believe we are still just sitting around and watching the illegals and hacks do this to customers or allow customers to do this to themselves.

As citizens we are directly responsible for reporting illegal activity. We sit back and allow this kind of thing and then we complain that it occurs. If I have to pay fines if I get something wrong or do something improperly, why shouldn't I report anyone I see defrauding others.

Change is not going to happen unless we make it happen. Wake up guy's and gal's, we can't afford to sit back and allow this kind of behavior to continue.

As for the yallow legal pad, mine is a white pad but essentially the same thing occurs. You have to get the customer informed before I can submit any legal documents to him for signing.

I write to my State Senators on a continual basis about illegal competition in my business and it's threat to end my business. I get polite form letters back with long term "sweet" plans on making them productive members of society.

Our leaders are so far off base that anything short of a revolution won't wake them to the common mans problems.


I think the most frustrating part is when you hear people compare the illegals to craftsmen,"They are so good at working with wood" Or tile, or concrete.

Bull****! "good enough" is the norm for the illegals.

Problem is, not one candidate thought it was an issue:censored:
 

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Starving Tile Artist
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I write to my State Senators on a continual basis about illegal competition in my business and it's threat to end my business. I get polite form letters back with long term "sweet" plans on making them productive members of society.

Our leaders are so far off base that anything short of a revolution won't wake them to the common mans problems.


I think the most frustrating part is when you hear people compare the illegals to craftsmen,"They are so good at working with wood" Or tile, or concrete.

Bull****! "good enough" is the norm for the illegals.

Problem is, not one candidate thought it was an issue:censored:
I'm going to only use one statement for this problem.
"The Squeaky Wheel Gets The Grease!"
 

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Fellas, the Wallet crawled out of the same
dung heap as the GC.
All he cared about was how cheap.
 

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As long as it's a yellow pad, and not a white, it's a completely legal contract:laughing:

That's where I start also, but my pad is 1/4" graph paper (also helps w/ sketches).

If the dude dropped 22K, it prolly wasn't their first meeting.

Where do you gather publicly, and drink that's not a bar??
 

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Seems I heard on tv the head of ice resigned and Pulosi, or whatever her name is, put a stop to ICE raids. I hate to say it, but as I have said before, this is a lost cause. Imo.
 

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Handle It!
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Fellas, the Wallet crawled out of the same
dung heap as the GC.
All he cared about was how cheap.
As Neo ha so insightfully pointed out....................The PROBLEM is NOT the GC. The PROBLEM is the demand. IF there exists a DEMAND there will always be a supply.

No one EVER "Takes The Long Way Home" these days. It is all about Faster, Cheaper, Easier.
 

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Handle It!
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It's out of control, and in CA, nearly completely unpoliced.

It once was and now is again, "North Mexico". Therefore there is no "Policing". The same word as "Policy". And that is exactly what it has become. Policy through the Non-Policing of Politics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Couple of points.

The yellow pad contract would have horrified me no matter what. In today's world, that just stupid business. And they referred to it as the contract. That's why the GC wrote another copy. But combined with the total sleaziness of the GC, it made for a mind boggling experience.

The illegals thing. I hated to say this for fear it would be misinterpreted. But the whole point of the Hispanic GC to the black mark was "A black man like you is gonna get screwed by the white contractors. Me and my illegals will treat you right."

Don't assume I was drinking an alcoholic beverage. I was vague because I don't know if the GC reads CT (plenty of sleazy operators do), and I don't want him and his buddies "visiting" me.

I expected the mark to leave first. At that point I planned to gather a bit of intel. I stepped up to the "counter" to get a "refill". When I turned around they were both walking out the door. To those who chide me for not gathering intel and reporting, I accept your comments. It was my intent. I have been regretting not getting that intel since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Oh, I forgot this until now. They chose a cheaper paint and conspired to tell the mark's wife it was the more expensive kind she wanted. I laughed inside over that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The antagonistic Asssshole that I am would not have allowed me to "Laugh Inside". I would have been "all up in the face" of that. But then again..........I have NO aversion to a Barroom/ Restaurant "Brawl"!:w00t:
Understood. Agreed. My thoughts ran along the lines of how this was gonna bite the jerks in the arse. And that thought brought me joy. Just like thinking about how horrible this is going to end up for both fo these guys.

This was not some innocent HO getting screwed. (Not talking to you malco, just talking.) Some of you picked up and that and correctly so. These punks deserve each other.
 

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Personally, I would have stood up, asked for one of his cards and called to check him out and report him if needed. I can't believe we are still just sitting around and watching the illegals and hacks do this to customers or allow customers to do this to themselves.

As citizens we are directly responsible for reporting illegal activity. We sit back and allow this kind of thing and then we complain that it occurs. If I have to pay fines if I get something wrong or do something improperly, why shouldn't I report anyone I see defrauding others.

Change is not going to happen unless we make it happen. Wake up guy's and gal's, we can't afford to sit back and allow this kind of behavior to continue.

As for the yallow legal pad, mine is a white pad but essentially the same thing occurs. You have to get the customer informed before I can submit any legal documents to him for signing.
I have reported numerous unlicensed hacks, to the Los Angeles building department, and to the CA state licensing board. Not once have I seen anything substantial done about it. The state never showed up at all, and the city will send a guy out, but they generally just do wahtever they can to get it swept under the rug. I know of one instance where the code enforcement agent told the HO to go get an owner builder re-hab permit and then he'd be okay. So Cal is the worst for this type of thing, and it really gets my a** red when I think of all the money I spend evrery year to stay legal. And I don't hire illegals to work for me either, and that adds exepense to my payroll. I'm sure my subs have illegals working, so my job site isn't totally legal I guess.
 

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I laughed inside over that.
I just got an image of you spewing your drink acorss the table and trying to pretend it was a cough and you was not listening.:laughing: That would have been funny. To me anyway:laughing:

That very well could have been a con mainly cause the bs about illegals being better than pros and black man being ripped of by the white contractor.
On the other hand we have done many deals that have originated in a public drinking place (yes, a bar).My dad was there not me ,i hate bars. We have built houses that were sketched out on a napkin. Contracts hand written on note book paper signed and payed cash over the hood of the truck the first day on site. Unorthadox but not illegal. But 99% of our jobs we already know the people or they already know of us.
 
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