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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday and today I blasted a boat which I thought would take 3-4 hours. It's a 14' light weight boat he only wanted the outside done. This is the kind 2 people can lift and flip over and such not real big or heavy. I didn't know it had 3 layers of paint on it one top coat of gray and a tough red primer and under coat of gray. I used soda not to warp the aluminum but it took for ever. I went though 6 bags in 6 hours today that was with the media turned up as much as I could. Pressure was max 130 with a 5/16 nozzle. Only asked $300 for it so I lost big time on this one. Was the soda the problem maybe I should have used glass which I did on the back of the boat to get bondo out. I burned up 25 gallons of fuel too so in the end I made about $100 for 9 hours of work 3 yesterday and 6 today.
 

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286 Posts
i blasted a 17' aluminum 2 weeks ago 17'long 7' wide and 4'tall. it was upside down to blast so pretty easy
1 coat of paint plus a added 3" paint stripe down the side blasted with soda, used 4 1/2 bags,(50lb bags) averaged 40 minutes per bag approx 3.5 hrs total. just sides and back, no inside.

problast pot, 95psi #5 tip
 

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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I went so long today I couldn't even stand the customer finished it up with my blaster I just couldn't hold my arms up anymore. It was kind of cool because I was able to make adjustments while I watched him blast I have never been able to do that because I don't have a helper and I'm always running the blaster. He had prior sand blasting experience so I felt he knew what he was doing which he did after watching him. He felt bad because I originally quoted him $250 so he gave me $300 and said he would help me on my next job I had for free. Next Saturday I have a 66 Chevy truck cab the guy wants the rust blasted out with glass on the inside only and underneath for $500. He said a local guy with a blast room quoted him $300 for the job but told him to get all the grease off because he reuses his media.
 

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any media master blaster
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166 Posts
Next time!

It's easy to say what you should have done after the fact, but you should have stripped it with chemical stripper and then blasted the remains off.

Sometimes I have owners of car fenders bring them to me after they strip the parts especially if they are irreplaceable.

Also soda for me is 64 cents a pound and glass or grit is closer to 10 after chemical stripping a small boat should take only an hour or so.
 

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Mr Blaster
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75 Posts
Why didnt you stop, update the customer with the multiple layer finding, and adjust price? I had a race car frame, supposedly one powdercoat. I found three, and called the guy on it. In the end, I got more $$$. Dont be afraid to call the customer on stuff like that.
 

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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know it's one of my first big soda jobs most of my stuff have been smaller glass jobs. I learned my lesson I remember the guy at MMLJ when I bought it saying something about using stripper first then the paint comes off faster. I may buy some to keep with me in case of that. I guess I'm getting so little work right now starting out I'm taking what I can get or I have to pay the loan out of my pocket and not the business which this is how it has been last 6 months except for 2 months. I need to make it pay for it self.
 

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I always keep a bag of sugar sand its a litle stronger than soda but it works realy good on thick layers of paint and rust. I like to mix it 3 parts soda 1 part sugar sand. It cost about 8 dollors for a 100lbs bag.
 

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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Labor plus material, labor plus material, labor plus material.................

$175 an hour plus 20 gallons, and $150 in soda? Do you just say $175 an hour and how ever long it takes you charge? Most of these people want a flat rate so they know how much it will be ahead of time.
 

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Glen
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1,504 Posts
Most of these people want a flat rate so they know how much it will be ahead of time.
Everybody wants a flat price because they really have no concept of what it is thst we do.

They beleive the amount you tell them is what you are going to earn. They simply don't understand all the costs involved in that days operation or the overhead of begining or maintaining a business.

That's why I an hourly rate is meaningless to most customers anyway because they just say "how many hours will it take?" And you are back in the same boat of giving them an exact quote.

You need to talk to them and redirect their whole train of thought.

" Ok sir ,that sounds like a very nice project you have for me, thank you. Now we need to get you a good idea of what it will cost and make certain that you are not over charged so here's what I can do for you. I have a good idea of the work involved with this sort of project and I know I'm going to need $600. bucks for my labor to do a great job for you and get this thing just the way you want it. What I can't know exactly, of course, is precisly how many coats of paint or areas of deeper rust there is going to be, even if I was there right now looking at it with you. The glass I'm going to use is going to run you 50 cents a lb which is $25. a bag and It looks like it could be anywhere from 8 bags up depending what we find so you can figure a good couple of hundred for material. I just use as little as I can and as much as I need to get it done right .Hows that sound to you?"

Now you can negociate the labor if you are willing to come down a bit or not from what ever you just told them. And you can even nock five bucks off the glass if you know your cost and feel you need to to get the ok. But in the end you have a minimum set fee that you will earn no matter what and they have an exact price on the material just not the exact quantity.

When anyone has given an exact price for any job ,and without exception, either you are the customer is getting screwed over the material to some degree. Now if it's a small lawn mower deck you can just figure three bags ad $75 labor in your head give them one price, how bad could it come out. This is just for the large unknowns that could run well over a conservitive estimate.

Remember you can ask to take some time to consider the job and call them back with a price. You can keep the set cost a little low to sound fair and raise the cost of each bag. Or the other way round if you prefer. You can offer a lower price on bags starting with the ninith bag and so on.

One price is for selling toasters. This is a labor plus costs business.
 

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Trial and Error Opperator
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2,018 Posts
Glen, you hit the nail on the head.
I don't know how anyone else can say it anymore direct.

this way you know what your making.

I did two different boats (aluminum) both same size,
one I coudn't keep up withthe paint coming off, the other had rubber riviot filler and didn't come off.

If I would have done these boats at a set cost, I would have lost out big time on the second one.

labor + material on most jobs are the way to go.

Kell: I posted earlier 175 hour just for you self to gage how you are doing pricing out jobs. ( labor and compressor fuel) this way every job you do, you will know what you want befor starting. then estamate grit.
 

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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dyer I saw you doing that boat in on your webpage what CFM, pressure, and nozzle were you using there? The main problem is I have little experience blasting whole cars or boats and I have no idea how much it would take. Most car paints seem to come off quickly I have done car hoods and fenders and such. Seems like the other guys in town are charging flat rates.
 

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Trial and Error Opperator
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2,018 Posts
That boat was done when I first got my rig. (LOL) If you notice, my son keeps going on and off with it. we did not have the grit adjusted right. should of had just a bit more for it to run good.

I find that I run the soda a bit rich. doing the job at labor only and letting the customer pay for the grit. i don't worry. It ends up using a small amount more on jobs, but I get done faster.

That was around 100 PSI, 1" ID hose, # 6 or 7 nozzle (been awhile) :thumbsup:

when doing cars with glass I like the bigger nozzle #7 or 8, it lowers the PSI a little ( dwn to 85-90) but you don't want high psi anyway. (warping)
the finer the grit the less warping, more course of grit, more chance of it.

the soda though more psi is better, I think. if you got it use it.
I only have a 185 CFM compressor, max is 110psi.

the boat you see in the web page, we did in 2 hours outside, 1/2 hour in. charged 350.
the second boat was the same style and size boat. it was a pain in the a$$, and I had to call the guy after 4 hours to see if he would pay more? this was my learning curve. :blink:

not every job will be the same!!!
Like Glen says... Get what you want for the job, then charge for the grit. this way you don't get pissed at your self when it goes bad.
 

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Master Blaster!
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188 Posts
I always tell them that its a matter of time and the variables are to great to give an exact dollar amount. I charge time only. I don't get into charging by the bag or for fuel, I have that worked into my hourly so it simplifies my bid process. I always give a rough estimate on time. If its a car I will tell them that we have blasted cars for as little as 350 to as much as 2350, its all realitive to the work at hand and untill we start blasting the car we will not know how long it will take. I will tell them that an hour or so into the job we should be able to provide a more definitive answer on how long the entire process will take but untill the job is done the invoice ticket remains open.
 

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Trial and Error Opperator
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2,018 Posts
I did Grafitti on a school. Lots of it.
had no Idea what to charge. (first time out on a job like this)
told them 175 an hour, that was to include labor, compressor run time, fuel and 1 bag of soda (per hr). I also included that if I was to use more soda it would be added on extra.
we ended up using water to keep the dust down. with water i use a 1 & 1/2 bags per hour.

thank god they agreed. I was 9 hours ( 12 bags of soda) with set up and tear down 4 times and on a foof blasting the 2nd floor wall. (charged them 30 x 3 for grit extra)

I made really good money and they were estatic. they thought I would be twice the time.
I've been back 3 times or more, they call, I do the job, send them the bill. no questions asked!

there is times you have to adjust to your job.
 

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Kelly
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257 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
the second boat was the same style and size boat. it was a pain in the a$$, and I had to call the guy after 4 hours to see if he would pay more? this was my learning curve. :blink:
So the 2nd boat what kind of paint was on it have you ever seen any cars with that kind of paint?
 

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Trial and Error Opperator
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2,018 Posts
the second boat had industrial enamel and I think some latex house paint.
the paint wasen't bad to take off, it was the plastic water sealer that was on the riviots. have never seen it before, don't want to see it again.

glass would of taken it off but would of eatin up the aluminum.
the soda would barley touch it. we blasted every thing we could. then called the guy to see if he wanted to take off the filler or leave it. he just left it.
 

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1,255 Posts
I've done a few aluminum boats before and I used Starblast as the media. I had no problems with warping the metal. I had around 90 psi at the blast nozzle as well with a Number Six nozzle. Took me about 30min to blast the last one I did which was mine. I painted it with Dupont Imron. The bottom leaked pretty bad from the around the rivits so I coated the bottom with Sherwin Williams Aluminum Epoxy Mastic "2 coats" and then applied the Imron. That was done over 15 years ago and she still does not leak that I know of. The boat sets down by my pond day after day and get's used a lot when I'm home and my son uses it when I'm not. 9 hours is real long time for such a small surface area. What kind of compressor do you have Kell? Also, I might have a lead for you in the area if you think your up to the work. It's on concrete and it should be real easy to do but you would have to be mobile and have a large enough pot and compressor to keep up production rates. Interested???????????? Anyone in the area??????????????
 
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