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I say, let's see how tough you are, come dress warm and join me outside for the day.
So it's a debate on how tough and hard something is? So people have to work outside in the cold in order to want more money? And if you don't crawl on a roof in cold weather, you don't know what work is?

Brilliant
 

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Oconomowoc said:
So it's a debate on how tough and hard something is? So people have to work outside in the cold in order to want more money? And if you don't crawl on a roof in cold weather, you don't know what work is? Brilliant
Well that was taken out of context. Quote everything I said.
 

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Fast food is not trade work. Period.

The two arent the same category. There isnt a minimum wage job in construction, unless you are slow or inefficient.

And yes, mike, working in the cold doing harder work pays more money. Because if it didnt there would be no laborers, they'd be nice and warm in the kitchen frying food for the same money.
 

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The other dynamic that isn't being factored in is that 50-65% of those striking for $15 an hour will be out of a job within a year.

There are plenty of hard working smart people out there earning $9-$12 an hour who will be applying for a job, and can work circles around those that don't really care about customer service or working efficiently.

Management should be able to cut the work force by perhaps 20% because the quality of the workers.

Those who don't apply themselves will find out quickly that there is a reason they only make minimum wage or slightly above. Who will hire them now?
 

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Dlfazt food is not trade work. Period.

The two arent the same category. There isnt a minimum wage job in construction, unless you are slow or inefficient.

And yes, mike, working in the cold doing harder work pays more money. Because if it didnt there would be no laborers, they'd be nice and warm in the kitchen frying food for the same money.
I work inside in the warm, I don't really work hard at all actually, I make quadruple and won't look like a monkey with a hunch back when I'm 60.

See, I can play this also.

My point is, work is irrelevant. A "trade" or "skill" is also irrelevant. It has nothing to do with money. Kind of shocked you 2 don't get that.
 

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So it's a debate on how tough and hard something is? So people have to work outside in the cold in order to want more money? And if you don't crawl on a roof in cold weather, you don't know what work is?

Brilliant
No, the debate is on the value of the position... there are more people making minimum wage at McD's versus $12.50 because there are LESS people willing to work outside in the cold weather doing things that require more skill...

Put this another way... do you think people should be guaranteed a return on their investments if they do not want to put the effort into learning how make their investments work for them?

They do... it's called SS... and it's the minimum they can expect, which is all government has to offer...

If you raise the minimum wage to $15, it is STILL the minimum wage... you're only route away from the minimum is to maximize your skill set...

If you raise the minimum to $15, two things are guaranteed to happen...

1. McD's et al will hire less people and increase the workload on the existing ones.

2. Things across the board WILL get more expensive as it will be a multiplier effect.

Anyone who thinks we should arbitrarily raise the minimum to $15, please explain why we stop at $15? And if you are an employer, then explain how you can raise an employee cost and NOT increase your prices to cover it...
 

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I work inside in the warm, I don't really work hard at all actually, I make quadruple and won't look like a monkey with a hunch back when I'm 60.

See, I can play this also.

My point is, work is irrelevant. A "trade" or "skill" is also irrelevant. It has nothing to do with money. Kind of shocked you 2 don't get that.
Dont make fun of my back :laughing:

Mike, your babbling a bunch of non sense. Are you high? :laughing:

You make quadruple because your a seasoned trade with your own business and a liscence.

The laborers make more because of supply and demand. I need beams and footers dug, lumber packed, ect... they want to make more than a fast food job.

If laborers made what a fry cook made on average the laborers would work fast food.
 

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I'm not debating minimum wage. The original post was about workers going on strike. Correct? Or am I confused?

It's free will, an important ingredient in capitalism.

There's no shortage of carpenters or roofers, not by any stretch. There's a surplus. That's why wages haven't gone up in 20 years, which is my point.

If we had a shortage wages would skyrocket for roofers. If I call for a new roof I'd have 20 companies stop over inside of 30 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #149
They are just opinions......

Seeing more and more threads on here getting heated over "opinions" lately.......:blink:


Is there any chance of having a little more respect for each other, keeping it civil ....:blink:


On a side note back in this thread .....

My first job was a stainless steel engineer back in 1978, my hourly rate was $2.65....I still have my pay stubs from that short lived carrier..:clap:..:laughing:.....




B,
 

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Dont make fun of my back :laughing:

Mike, your babbling a bunch of non sense. Are you high? :laughing:

You make quadruple because your a seasoned trade with your own business and a liscence.

The laborers make more because of supply and demand. I need beams and footers dug, lumber packed, ect... they want to make more than a fast food job.

If laborers made what a fry cook made on average the laborers would work fast food.
Sorry, I don't do drugs.

The "quadruple" thing was tongue & cheek.

Total compensation for a plumber employee is extremely high when compared to a roofer. This is by design.
 

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Oconomowoc said:
I work inside in the warm, I don't really work hard at all actually, I make quadruple and won't look like a monkey with a hunch back when I'm 60. See, I can play this also. My point is, work is irrelevant. A "trade" or "skill" is also irrelevant. It has nothing to do with money. Kind of shocked you 2 don't get that.

I don't get how a skill is irrelevant to money. So a doctor should be paid the same as a burger flipper because people pay more for a surgery?

Anyone can work fast food. That's why high school kids with no work experience do it. All the managers need to do is teach the kids to push a few buttons for a day and they're trained.

It would take me a year to train someone from the ground up.

My point was simply that they all seem to think they aren't replaceable. That for some reason they have such skills that no one else can do their job.
 

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There is a major shortage odf skilled trades in this entire state.



like I said seven or eight pages ago , they have the right to strike. Doesn't mean it will do them any good. They worked for me, they would be looking for a new job.
 

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No-one is saying they don't have the right or free will to strike... knock yourself out... the idea behind it is having the government to force the wage instead of the market... out of the two, the market will always be superior to the minimums the government can offer...

I think I need to strike so that the government will force my customers to pay me more... :thumbsup:
 

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I don't get how a skill is irrelevant to money. So a doctor should be paid the same as a burger flipper because people pay more for a surgery?

Anyone can work fast food. That's why high school kids with no work experience do it. All the managers need to do is teach the kids to push a few buttons for a day and they're trained.

It would take me a year to train someone from the ground up.

My point was simply that they all seem to think they aren't replaceable. That for some reason they have such skills that no one else can do their job.
Well, anybody could be a roofer.

They don't think they are not replaceable, where have you ever seen that written? They are just human beings trying to make it. Nothing more nothing less.

The Doctor analogy is wrong also.

Doctors make a lot because of barriers to entry
 

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Total compensation for a plumber employee is extremely high when compared to a roofer. This is by design.
It is not by "design"....it is based on a few more factors.

I can teach most guys who are not lazy with a little desire to be a framer....or a roofer, but how about a contractor? Any trade with an honest to God license that requires testing and 2000 or 3000 hours to earn will certainly command more money.

Obama will fail this economy by trying to reward absence of a work ethic on the backs of us who in fact work hard....and the idea will fail, just as it has failed in every socialist model ever tried.

You are a pilot....at least I assume you are....if you could obtain a pilot's license as easily as a driver's license, how much would the compensation be for flying commercially?

Actually....not a great comparison, because pilots don't make crap compared to the learning and time required. I have just shy of 4000 hours, and I probably could not earn 50k a year in a flying or instructing job.


BTW, would you want a doctor earning nothing doing your heart surgery, or the best you could afford?
 

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It's not an entitlement, my God, what is wrong with you? Where on earth did you get entitlement from? Can you image where we'd be if only employers could set wages? That's worse than Communism.

Can you imagine how ruined this country would be if people could decide what jobs were important and which ones weren't and who gets paid this and who gets paid that.

I guess I'll yield and let you guys duke out. This is basic fundamental capitalism where employees and employers battle and find balance. It all works out and none of it matters.
It's a self balancing system. If the pay is to low no one will work the job. Look at the farm industry. How many Americans are going to work farms these days for what they pay. No one. That's why they bring in the illegals to do that work. If they paid a good wage kids would be all over it along with some adults.

If you don't pay, they will stay away.
 

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They are just human beings trying to make it. Nothing more nothing less.
Agreed... but who is responsible for them making it? Them or the government?

Why shouldn't the government set a "living wage" for everyone and that's what everyone makes no matter their skill set or motivation?
 

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Oconomowoc said:
Well, anybody could be a roofer. They don't think they are not replaceable, where have you ever seen that written? They are just human beings trying to make it. Nothing more nothing less. The Doctor analogy is wrong also. Doctors make a lot because of barriers to entry
I don't get if you realize you're agreeing with me or not.

Doctors make more because skills they had to gain meaning that more skills equals more pay. A master plumber makes more than an apprentice.

You're right about roofers. Never said they weren't replaceable.
 

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What about the rest of the day? After breakfast hour rush slows? Still working hard? It amuses me so when someone says they work hard and they are a person behind a desk.

Even I don't work hard, by design. I work long hours and I am usually continuously busy and on my feet. But unless I'm sweating and my muscles ache the next day I don't consider that working hard.
 

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loneframer said:
Think of how many of those minimum wagers would rock the vote in the next election...

Handouts are handouts. To those who will never understand, nor bear the cost of a handout, something for nothing is a beautiful thing.
That's the whole point right there
 
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