I am looking for advice as to what would be a fair price per square foot to charge to install and frame lattice panels with framed lattice "door" and latch to access heat pump. I have priced and will be supplying all materials and would like to come up with a fair price for both myself and the owner. Thank you for your time and response!
Sq. Ft. Price for lattice skirt addition under raised deck
Elle Zeigh
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I am looking for advice as to what would be a fair price per square foot to charge to install and frame lattice panels with framed lattice "door" and latch to access heat pump. I have priced and will be supplying all materials and would like to come up with a fair price for both myself and the owner. Thank you for your time and response!
You're gonna get three replies.
1) $3.50
2) Who are you/what do you do?
3) https://www.contractortalk.com/threads/pricing-estimating-and-success.27899/#post-301824
Actually, maybe four...
4) Are you an AI bot?
1) $3.50
2) Who are you/what do you do?
3) https://www.contractortalk.com/threads/pricing-estimating-and-success.27899/#post-301824
Actually, maybe four...
4) Are you an AI bot?
SF of the lattice...4'x8' ? 32 SF
Or, linear FT along the perimeter of the job?
You need to figure this out for you.
What do you need to cover materials?
Do you mark up materials?
What do need to earn per day to be in business?
What is "fair" for the customer? What does that even mean?
Mercedes doesn't hold meetings to see what is "FAIR" to the customer.
You bid what it will take for YOU to do the job and the customer shops around and maybe goes with your bid. This is all basic business. You aren't a licensed contractor are you?
Or, linear FT along the perimeter of the job?
You need to figure this out for you.
What do you need to cover materials?
Do you mark up materials?
What do need to earn per day to be in business?
What is "fair" for the customer? What does that even mean?
Mercedes doesn't hold meetings to see what is "FAIR" to the customer.
You bid what it will take for YOU to do the job and the customer shops around and maybe goes with your bid. This is all basic business. You aren't a licensed contractor are you?
SF is just a unit of measurement... so is LF, CB, etc...
What is fair to the customer and you is you charging what you need to charge to be in business... when it comes to pricing, it comes down to LOMP... Labor, Overhead, Materials and Profit... if you don't cover all this, you're not being fair to your company or family... the following is a breakdown of how to determine what to charge, to be able to feed your company and family (which is what is "Fair") and it can then be converted into whatever unit of measurement you want (i.e. - SF, LF, CF, etc.)...
PRICING...
The first "secret" pricing is not basing your price off of someone else's price...
As an example, assuming a 40-hour work week, you have 2080 hours per year you can work... if one guy thinks making $50K/year remodeling houses is fine, because it's more than he made as an employee, his hourly rate just to make his salary is around $24/hour. For ease of example, this does not include taxes, WC, bene's, retirement, etc... which would ADD to the hourly cost...
2nd guy wants to make $75K/year doing the same thing... He needs to make in excess of $36/hour... assuming they both can work at the same rate of speed and quality, the first guy needs to charge $192 for an 8-hour day, but the 2nd guy needs to charge $282 for an 8-hour day, or 50% more just to make their base pay...
Now one guy might have a shop, and the other guy doesn't... one guy might be legit and be insured and the other guy not... one guy may be paying off a vehicle the other guy not... etc... many variables, but the important ones are what YOUR companies variables are...
So, if the 2nd guy based his pricing off the first guy, he would be at a NET negative EVERY DAY of $96 just on what they wanted to make as their base pay. Add in all the other variables costs in running a company, which is different from company to company, and you can see the folly in basing your pricing off of another company's pricing...
L - Labor
O - Overhead
M - Materials
P - Profit
Labor - First, you calculate your Labor.... this includes what you want to make GROSS every year for you and anyone you employ, PLUS taxes, Insurance, bene's, bonuses, retirement, etc....
Overhead - Insurances, Shop, cell, advertising, WC, electric, heat, vehicle insurance, any vehicle payments, accountant, equipment maintenance, office supplies, etc... spend the time to make sure you account for it all...
These two figures (Labor and Overhead) are added together and make up what is typically your HOURLY RATE and divided by 2080 hours (40-hour week or whatever you determine your work week to be) and this is the MINIMUM you can charge per hour as they are a CONSTANT. So if you expect a job to take a day and a half, you better assume TWO days unless you are somehow able to fit another job in that half day (unlikely)... so you would take the hourly cost from this calculation and multiply it by 16 (two 8-hour days).) If you have a day where you had no business, it NEEDS to be accounted for in your upcoming jobs if you do not have Capital Reserves or an Emergency Fund to absorb it.
Materials - these are what your materials will cost for the project. Everything. Then you add a percentage for handling, delivery, etc... I should also mention, we've taken to adding gas to materials because of it's variable nature. We record how many miles it takes to get to a prospects house for the estimate, and calculate our average gas price for the month and build it into materials. Because we add a percentage on top for handling/delivery, it helps cover any variance... Because you will know what they charge, subs (if any) can be included in this category...
Profit - this is what you pay your company, (NOT your pay left over after a job) which is based on all of the above... so add up Labor, Overhead, Materials and then multiply x whatever profit margin % you have determined you need. This goes towards things like a 3-6 months of Capital Reserves account, Emergency Fund and Equipment Fund... developing and having these will also go a long way in planning for employees and not getting stuck in "rob Peter to pay Paul" cycles, which are hard to get out of...
If you do not have PROFIT built into your pricing, there is only ONE place it can come from.... YOURS and YOUR FAMILIES pocket...
Your challenge is when you add up the numbers for the above (the only variable should be materials and the Profit percentage will take care of itself as it is based on the other three) is you will be surprised at how much it indeed costs you to be in business... but the number IS what YOU need to charge to be in business, so THAT'S FAIR no matter the final number... don't let go of that... takes some guys YEARS of chasing the bottom dollar to get there... save yourself the heartache and adopt that mentality early on...
Then you will have to go after the business that can support what YOU need to make, not what they can afford to pay... and then you will come to realize that not everyone is your customer and that your efforts should be focused on finding customers that can support what YOU need to charge to be in business... the good news is, is that once you do, the referrals tend to be among the same demographic/income level.... If you drop your pants on a job to "buy it", if you have not accrued any capital reserves or emergency fund, it comes DIRECTLY out of your pocket... sometimes you have to do what you have to do, just make it the exception, not the rule... but realize, that EVERYONE ELSE (subs, material suppliers, taxes, overhead, etc.) ALL still expect to be paid, so as the person bringing everyone else the business, make sure you and your company are paid as well...
There's no secret involved... just getting to know your prices and what YOU need to charge, not what the other guy charges...
Best of luck... 8^)
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I’m going to re read some long threads here. I’ve been in the trades since a teen. Only about 4 years pricing everything on my own. I understand the formulas. But it’s still one of my biggest flaws I think. I’ve started with no savings as I’m a soul provider for my home. I rent, scrape by with bills mostly paid on time, have food and a roof. But camping is a luxury. As far as “fair to costumers and to self” well… I’ve found myself from time to time saying would I pay 8k to have someone build this playhouse, no. Would I pay 5k? Yes. But not be happy about it. But as a small time sole proprietor legit with no other official employees, no capital saved. It’s hard to be beyond a glorified handyman. But in their lies the difference. And what your name is known for once it’s out, well that can become hard to change. Bottom line going by square ft, or whatever alone usually doesn’t pan out well for me. I wouldn’t base a lattice job like that. But might ask myself how much would I pay for this playhouse.
I'd encourage you to get past what YOU'D pay for something and rather charge what YOU need to charge to be in business... you can't use the value you place on something to substitute what another would place the value at...
Just one good example... ladies will spend OODLES of money on cosmetics, nails, hair, etc. while a guy looks at that and says it's a waste of money (even though they benefit from it), but ladies VALUE it differently so they're willing to pay it, and pay the price it costs the business they get it from to do it...
Cars are another example... what one person would be pay for a car is different than what another would... the examples go on...
If you want to get past the level you're at of just making it, you have to learn to charge what YOU need to be in business and over time you'll find yourself within the pool of customers that can support your business and your family... it's tough being a one-income family today, the focus for you on value would be more in tune to not only the value you can provide your family through pricing your jobs so that it not involves paying yourself an income that supports your family, but a PROFIT that supports your business... this can put you in the position of developing 3-6 months of Capital Reserves and Emergency Fund, as well as, Equipment fund, Employee Fund, etc...
I remember those days, and I got to the point where I was either going to raise my pricing to make it work or go work for someone else who figured it out... I was AMAZED that in increasing my price just 5% didn't affect my closing ratio, nor did the next 4 times when I brought my pricing in line with what I NEEDED to charge versus what I thought I had to charge to get the business... I ended up being shocked at how much money I was leaving on the table and realized in retrospective why it was the main reason I was stuck in rob Peter to pay Paul cycles...
But we've all been there... better to learn this early on rather than years of struggles later...
Try 3 X materials and see how you do if you get the contract. If you are not worth twice a pile of materials look for a new job.
The only way to have good pricing per sq. ft. is by doing it over and over again and develope a price structure/formula that works for you. If you are going to be in the deck/patio business it really helps to have a streamlined process for bids.
The only way to have good pricing per sq. ft. is by doing it over and over again and develope a price structure/formula that works for you. If you are going to be in the deck/patio business it really helps to have a streamlined process for bids.
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18,380 Posts
Starting out, I would price your jobs and add 10 to 20 percent. That will most likely get you closer to where you need to be. That also will act as your overhead and profit until you get your numbers dialed in.
We all started out under pricing. Either we don't think we are worth it, the customer will say no, or any one of a million reasons.
I usedbtobassume a customer didn't have enough money to afford me, so I would drop my rate.
Eventually I realized they had a nicer house, a nicer car and took nicer vacations than me.
I now assume they can afford my rates. If not, they aren't my customer.
With all that being said, I still drop my rate occasionally, old customers or little old ladies, etc., but not on the bigger jobs.
I also still occasionally under bid and lose my shirt.
It will happen on accident, so don't lose your shirt on purpose.
Remember, your customers usually have better stuff than you, especially when starting out.
You deserve to make a living and take care of your family. You aren't a charity and you can't save the world by charging less and paying to do a job.
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All sound advice. Not to jack the thread from OP, but I feel it is all good advice for them as well. I honestly have more work thrown at me than I can handle. Have never had to advertise, or go looking for work. I’ve been blessed with taking over my last boss clientele and then gaining my own. One issue is my last boss was pricing work like it’s 1994, and lots of work is for a property management company which I’ve been working for less and less as they just want cheap as possible. Wish I could keep up with all my clientele and while under greater stress, comes the greater reward. This year has been a test of that for sure as I’ve taken on the biggest jobs yet.
I absolutely love the craft, always trying to improve.
Definitely not in love with the business aspect but I gotta get a handle if I want to make it work.
One thing I’ve noticed, is when trying to bring greenhorns on board, or guys wanting 35/hr because they can almost read a tape measure, it’s hard for them when not doing the same type of stuff day after day. With the management company I’m not the highest nor the lowest bidder, sometimes I make good money on a job, sometimes I end up working for $8/hr but I chalk that up to my efficiency.
Thanks again to all those who bestow wisdom from their own experience. OP, I would definitely heed their advice. I try to remind myself the business should not cost me money, but make money. Once I stop wanting to micromanage so much and accept people will do mistakes, I will grow as able to do more jobs at the same time. Good workers that aren’t already employed are hard to come by. I just want to have 10k in a bank I don’t have to touch, then I can really look to hire people on the books.
I absolutely love the craft, always trying to improve.
Definitely not in love with the business aspect but I gotta get a handle if I want to make it work.
One thing I’ve noticed, is when trying to bring greenhorns on board, or guys wanting 35/hr because they can almost read a tape measure, it’s hard for them when not doing the same type of stuff day after day. With the management company I’m not the highest nor the lowest bidder, sometimes I make good money on a job, sometimes I end up working for $8/hr but I chalk that up to my efficiency.
Thanks again to all those who bestow wisdom from their own experience. OP, I would definitely heed their advice. I try to remind myself the business should not cost me money, but make money. Once I stop wanting to micromanage so much and accept people will do mistakes, I will grow as able to do more jobs at the same time. Good workers that aren’t already employed are hard to come by. I just want to have 10k in a bank I don’t have to touch, then I can really look to hire people on the books.
What are you basing "fair" on?
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