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Cabinetry guys- is Castle worth it?

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hoye0017

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Residential Remodeling, Cabinetry, Finish Carpentry
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
It’s time to upgrade my pocket hole setup. I’ve used the old Kreg system for years to make and attach face frames. I average 3-4 custom cabinet projects a year, so I’m far from being a production shop.

I’m taking a hard look at the Castle TSM-12, but the price is stopping me. At $1800, it’s hard to imagine I’ll save enough time to make it worth it over a Kreg Foreman.

I guess what I’m asking is whether the low angle pocket is really that much better? Does it completely stop the shifting? Do you do less sanding? How about wood splitting when you’re near screwing near the end of a stile?
 
#2 ·
How much shift are you getting? My max normally is about .007" or less. You need to have the setup correct. Also using a little glue and waiting a minute or so for it to setup keeps it put.

Too much glue on the joint acts like a lubricant and helps the parts slip. Also if there is any separation of the two parts to be joined there will be slip.
 
#4 ·
I have the Castle (I still have the steel Foreman this replaced, used it for years), at your volume I’d recommend you keep using the Kreg.

Not sure how you clamp the joints but I clamp with the face frame and 3/4” bench top clamped together. This really helps the joint alignment.

Tom
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys,
The joint slip really only happens at face frame joints. And it doesn’t happen consistently. I use the older version of the Kreg bench top clamp, like this one, but before it had auto-adjust:

Bench Clamp System

Create a versatile 360° benchtop clamping station The Bench Clamp System combines a versatile 3" Bench Clamp with an anodized-aluminum Clamp Plate to create a 360° clamping station that can be recessed into just about any wood surface, such as a workbench, sawhorse, or worktable. The plate gets...
www.kregtool.com www.kregtool.com

I also have the occasional end split and sometimes an over-drive with the screw head just starting to pop out. These don’t happen often, but it sure sucks when it happens. I suspect the shallow angle of the Castle might eliminate this altogether.

I wish I could try one before I bought it. It’s hard to toss money at a “maybe”.
 
#7 ·
hoye0017 said:
It’s time to upgrade my pocket hole setup. I’ve used the old Kreg system for years to make and attach face frames. I average 3-4 custom cabinet projects a year, so I’m far from being a production shop.

I’m taking a hard look at the Castle TSM-12, but the price is stopping me. At $1800, it’s hard to imagine I’ll save enough time to make it worth it over a Kreg Foreman.

I guess what I’m asking is whether the low angle pocket is really that much better? Does it completely stop the shifting? Do you do less sanding? How about wood splitting when you’re near screwing near the end of a stile?
Click to expand...
For the amount of time you spend on custom cabinets per year (3-4 times), that'd be like saying should you get a face-frame assembly table with pneumatic clamps because it's easier to assemble the pocket-hole face-frames... comes down to ROI...

Now, if you find yourself increasing those type of projects, it can easily be justified from an ROI perspective...

But wouldn't be the first tool that I spend money on that I didn't use as much as I should have over the years... ;):LOL::ROFLMAO:
 
#8 ·
I bought a used Castle TSM 21(I think it was 21) for $2000 about 4-5 years ago. It is a lot of money for a single use tool, but totally worth it. I do more than just cabinets, so I do not use it every week, but I am happy with the decision to buy it.
I find the shifting to be less than with a typical Kreg pocket hole, but i still need to clamp both pieces to prevent the shifting. And I agree that wood splitting seems to be dependent on the actual piece of wood.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Of course… I just noticed that Castle is in Petaluma,CA. I just spent a week there with time to kill. I bet I could have tried one out if I’d asked nicely.
 
#10 ·
I'd stick with the Kreg pocket hole jig given how many projects you're doing per year.

The choice between the TSM-12 Castle Pocket Cutter and a Kreg pocket hole jig depends on your specific needs and preferences. Here are a few things to consider:

Precision and Strength
The TSM-12 Castle Pocket Cutter is known for its precision and strength. It creates a unique, interlocking pocket that provides a robust joint. If you prioritize durability and strength in your woodworking projects, the TSM-12 may be a preferred choice.

Ease of Use
Kreg pocket hole jigs are popular for their simplicity and user-friendly design. If ease of use and quick setup are crucial factors for you, a Kreg jig might be a more straightforward option, especially for hobbyists and DIYers.

Versatility
The Kreg pocket hole system offers a range of jigs and accessories, providing versatility for various woodworking applications. If you need a tool that can handle a variety of projects and materials, a Kreg jig might offer more flexibility.

Budget
Consider your budget. Kreg jigs are cheap.

Project Scale
For large-scale or professional woodworking projects, the TSM-12 Castle Pocket Cutter's strength and precision may be advantageous. If you're working on smaller projects or DIY tasks, a Kreg pocket hole jig could be sufficient.
 
#11 ·
How is the Castle joint any stronger the the Kreg?
 
#13 ·
I was wondering how a joint using the same screw was stronger than the other. The Kreg screw has a washer head giving more bearing surface area than the Castle screw has. Normally in 3/4" material you use a 1 1/4" screw with the Kreg. Maybe you can use a 1 1/2" screw because of the lower angle. That would give it a slight advantage over the Kreg. But because of the smaller head on the Castle screw it might pull through easier.

Most pocket joints are glued. The screw is essentially a clamp until the glue dries and then the glue is the main holding factor.

So again, why is the Castle joint stronger than the Kreg joint?
 
#15 ·
If you are using 1 1/2" screws it should be a bit stronger. But generally how much strength do you need in a Face Frame application which it the general use for the system. Kreg uses a 1 1/4" screw for 3/4" material. The 1 1/2" screw can poke through the face if you don't have it setup perfect.
 
#16 ·
Glue is the main strength of the joint, the screw is there as back-up and clamp... if the glue fails, the screw isn't going to stop the joint from checking over time, just keep it in place for the most part... but the screw can loosen over time and if the glue joint doesn't fail because of lack of glue or bad glue batch, the joint should remain true...
 
#18 ·
If you don't glue a Kreg joint, it usually doesn't slip. The glue is the lube. So I put the glue on sparingly other than the front of the joint that gets seen. I makes sure there's a bit of squeeze out.

If you are getting a lot of squeeze out when you apply glue, you are putting to much on.
 
#20 ·
Just have a normal amount on the part that shows so you don't get stain penetration in the endgrain or a little dip in the paint. Definitely noticeable if you put a lot of glue on. I use the vice grip clamps Kreg makes. Leave them on the joint for about a minute or so to let the glue set up too. That also helps it from creeping.
 
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