Historic house – exposed rafter – how to frame cross beam into wall

PFGraham · Jun 22, 2022

I’m working on a 1946 custom home by an important architect and need to come very close to building the living room from the original blueprints.

I’m luck to have the original plans but they don’t tell you everything, I’m sure you all know how that goes even today.

The first shows a living room from the same architect building basically the same thing as the one I’m working on.

The second shows the section with the Ridge Beam, (Cross) Beam, Exposed Rafters and support Post.

Constraints: I need the bottom of the beam to stay where it is, it can’t be lifted to be on top of either top plate (sucky).
What’s the best way to frame this while maintaining some overall rigidity to the entire wall without an apparent full run top plate?

This is just the first of a series of questions – next is how best to do the same thing but the wall in question will have doors and windows in it – I’m assuming another full run beam but we can burn that bridge when we come to it.

Right now, what’s the best way to frame this as if it was a full wall without any opening below it?

Thanks – Patrick

greg24k · Jun 22, 2022

What it shows on the picture is not the same as what it shows on the drawing. If you need the beam to stay where it is, raise the roof, if want the way it's done on the drawing, drop the beam or raise the plate.

Tom M · Jun 22, 2022

Unless I'm missing something there is a full double plate. The beam is notched.

Ken360 · Jun 22, 2022

I'd place support within the wall framing to directly support beams/rafters. No way in hell would I notch a beam like that.

Tom M · Jun 22, 2022

The roof pitch will lean on each other and sag at the ridge less with steeper slopes. So those beams become fancy looking rafter ties.
This roof pitch and ridge look sag-able and then these cripples and beams come into play.

How much has to be calculated by engineer.

hdavis · Jun 22, 2022

Ignoring everything else, I'd build it as post and beam, and infill the stud framing.

Joe Fairplay · Jun 22, 2022

Fill under the beams with studs where your arrows are in the second picture.
Just pack it solid by adding 3 or 4 studs.

PFGraham · Jun 22, 2022

Stuck at my other job guys - 7 replies in one day - what was I doing posting on that 'other' site!!!!

I'll reply to all later today - can't tell you how excited to connect with people who actually know how to frame!

- Patrick

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Tom M said:
Unless I'm missing something there is a full double plate. The beam is notched.

Notching a beam - sorry, I'm not sure that's a great idea.

Yes, in the original drawing - it shows a full run double top plate - but, as you can see, it represents the beam as level to the bottom of the lower-top-plate - this is why I'm asking.

Here's the original Detail:

And here's a Section view:

Hope this makes it clearer.
- Patrick

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Ken360 said:
I'd place support within the wall framing to directly support beams/rafters. No way in hell would I notch a beam like that.

I'm thinking the same thing Ken.

BUT, how do you tie together all those separate 'walls' so they don't have a set of waves if looking down the finished wall - I'm worries on how you cleanly and structurally tie the mess together. I made this drawing to illustrate the '5 wall' idea:

Wall 1, 3 4 - all standard and easy.
Wall 2, 4 are basically just 4x4 or 4x6 posts holding up the 'dropped' beam or whatever.

I don't see how they tie together.

- Patrick

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Joe Fairplay said:
Fill under the beams with studs where your arrows are in the second picture.
Just pack it solid by adding 3 or 4 studs.

I'm cool with that but how would that tie into the sections around it, so as to act as a single wall?

One thought I have, and it's because most of the actual walls for this architect, have doors or windows in the walls, is to have a lower carrying beam that would run the length of the wall.

The problem I see with this idea is the spaces between the cross beams would be, in essence, fured (sp) up to support the rafters - this seems rickety and against the natural forces of the rafters.

- Patrick

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

hdavis said:
Ignoring everything else, I'd build it as post and beam, and infill the stud framing.

You might right - the thought of a bastardized Post & Beam with stick framing might be the only way and had crossed my mind.

Hence, why I'm here.

- Patrick

Tom M · Jun 23, 2022

Bolt to plate detail still appears to show a notched beam. Every section shows continuous plate.

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Tom M said:
Bolt to plate detail still appears to show a notched beam. Every section shows continuous plate.

I'm not seeing that in the drawing. Here's a larger snapshot of the section:

Also, there would be a detail pointing that out.

Also, is notching the bottom of a beam 'legal', ever - I can't see how that would have any strength whatsoever. Seems like that would forfeit the structural integrity of the beam instantly.

Right???

- Patrick

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Here's the room as it exists today:

No clue what they were going for with this raked exposed beam thingy....

(Molly's the dog and the secret under the green tarp is actually just a croma-green backdrop my son was trying to get the wrinkles out of for his studio - it's not working...)

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Tom M said:
Bolt to plate detail still appears to show a notched beam. Every section shows continuous plate.

OH, I see what you mean - on my CAD drawing, I represented the top plates throught the beams - I did that for ease of drawing and to illustrate where the bottom of the beam is relative to the top plates - I see why you asked that now. I'll trim that on the drawing. THANKS for pointing that out.

Tom M · Jun 23, 2022

Where do you see the bolts going now?
It looks like the post is under the beam after the bolts were placed.

Rough sawn lumber allows 1/4 the depth end notching....shrug...

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

Tom M said:
Where do you see the bolts going now?
It looks like the post is under the beam after the bolts were placed.

Rough sawn lumber allows 1/4 the depth end notching....shrug...

Through the top of the rafter, down through the top plates, bolted from below the plates.

Tom M said:
Where do you see the bolts going now?
It looks like the post is under the beam after the bolts were placed.

Rough sawn lumber allows 1/4 the depth end notching....shrug...

Crude but, can you see it now?

PFGraham · Jun 23, 2022

PFGraham said:
OH, I see what you mean - on my CAD drawing, I represented the top plates throught the beams - I did that for ease of drawing and to illustrate where the bottom of the beam is relative to the top plates - I see why you asked that now. I'll trim that on the drawing. THANKS for pointing that out.

Corrected:

- Top plates stop at Beam

Thanks!
- Patrick

greg24k · Jun 23, 2022

What is the depth of that beam? Keep in mind that the beam is carrying a roof load, so how much of that beam-end will you be cutting not project beyond the top of the rafters.

Historic house – exposed rafter – how to frame cross beam into wall

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