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2 coats of primer on ceiling rather than paint?

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#21 ·
One time long, long ago, I used regular oil Kilz on a ceiling that was water damaged. The ceiling was the little acoustic snap-in 12" square tiles that get stapled to furring strips. It was a bathroom and looked like new when I was finished.

I would never try that on a larger room. As mentioned before, unless someone's climbing the walls, the ceiling doesn't need the protection that a wall does.

steve
 
#22 ·
LennyV-NHSNOLA said:
Primer doesn't normally cover as well as paint. It's good for sealing and creating a uniform surface for later painting, but not for covering. Even the "stain killing" primers will usually show a dark stain through the primer but it creates a new surface for paint to go over and then the stain won't bleed through the primer into the paint.

I had a recent ceiling paint job where the owner did the first job himself and he was told to just use Kilz II and do two coats. It looked like crap and I could see the joint seams through the primer.
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If your seeing tape joints through the primer... that's a drywall finishing error. Primer just shows those errors that need fixed. As far as primer as a topcoat..it may not be traditional but 2 coats of the bullseye 321 looks pretty darn good when everything is done right. I've had it on my ceilings for 10yrs and it still looks like it did on day one.
 
#23 ·
2guns and a hammer said:
If your seeing tape joints through the primer... that's a drywall finishing error. Primer just shows those errors that need fixed. As far as primer as a topcoat..it may not be traditional but 2 coats of the bullseye 321 looks pretty darn good when everything is done right. I've had it on my ceilings for 10yrs and it still looks like it did on day one.
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Is this mysterious Bullseye 321 something another 16 years into the future?
 
#24 ·
Joewho said:
Even if the primer can be applied so that it looks good, it won't stay that way. The seams and joints will show through pretty soon. Primer is not intended to have a very good "finish" surface. Its' just there to seal and bond the
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avenge said:
Is this mysterious Bullseye 321 something another 16 years into the future?
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No not at all. Is there an actual reason why not to use it? Or is it just traditional to prime then paint? I'm asking about ceilings only...not walls. I read earlier about tape joints showing through the primer. Isn't that a drywall finish problem and not primer. I'm just curious to how ceiling paint hold tape joints together or even hides those issues?
 
#26 ·
2guns and a hammer said:
No not at all. Is there an actual reason why not to use it? Or is it just traditional to prime then paint? I'm asking about ceilings only...not walls. I read earlier about tape joints showing through the primer. Isn't that a drywall finish problem and not primer. I'm just curious to how ceiling paint hold tape joints together or even hides those issues?
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#27 ·
OK. I get 2006 part. I Googled a question ...this is where I ended up at.
My question is about using 2 coats bullseye 321 primer as a finish on ceilings without using a flat ceiling paint. And the reason I'm asking is because I subbed out the drywall hanging and finishing because I have other projects going on and was attempting to a hat trick. The homeowns are not happy because of all the seams are showing and there are nail pops everywhere.. and the subcontractor is making every excuse possible including that ceiling paint will hide everything. Sorry for being 16yrs late here lol
 
#28 ·
2guns and a hammer said:
OK. I get 2006 part. I Googled a question ...this is where I ended up at.
My question is about using 2 coats bullseye 321 primer as a finish on ceilings without using a flat ceiling paint. And the reason I'm asking is because I subbed out the drywall hanging and finishing because I have other projects going on and was attempting to a hat trick. The homeowns are not happy because of all the seams are showing and there are nail pops everywhere.. and the subcontractor is making every excuse possible including that ceiling paint will hide everything. Sorry for being 16yrs late here lol
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And it's Bullseye 1-2-3. All primers are meant to be top coated. Unless it's a drywall finishing issue a good primer would cover Bullseye isn't one of them.
 
#29 ·
This is worth starting your own thread.

Ceiling paint doesn't hide nail pops. Without seeing the seam issue, I can't comment on that. Ceiling paint is just a cheap flat paint, and defects aren't as noticeable with a flat paint.

Can you just leave the ceiling in primer? Sure. 123 is higher sheen than flat paint, so it will still show more.
 
#30 ·
avenge said:
And it's Bullseye 1-2-3. All primers are meant to be top coated. Unless it's a drywall finishing issue a good primer would cover Bullseye isn't one of them.
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hdavis... thank you sir.
You are correct it does have a higher sheen and it doesn't forgive as much as flat. And yes when no issues are present it can be used as a topcoat finish. Thanks for validating what I already knew to be a fact. I apologize for such a dumb topic of discussion. One more thought though to all contractors...the homeowners deserve quality work and should get what they pay for...take pride in the customers smile at the end of a well done job...that's priceless!!!
 
#32 ·
2guns and a hammer said:
One more thought though to all contractors...the homeowners deserve quality work and should get what they pay for...take pride in the customers smile at the end of a well done job...that's priceless!!!
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My clients get the same standard as always it's not based on what they're paying I don't do discounted projects. Getting what they paid for many times equals bad quality those aren't my clients.

What's priceless is full payment upon completion, no punch list, no callbacks, referrals and repeat customers.
 
#33 ·
Sure. I completely get the flat finish.
But some homeowners want a high sheen...even as much as a high gloss. A month ago I sprayed out a God awful blue green. Homeowners want what they want.
I understand that most primers call for a top coat. I've let the bullseye fly because it's served me well in the past and I've had no issues until this particular sub out job.
Would I recommend my way of doing things to those that only do flat finish ceilings....heck no. It's tricky and time consuming and I charge more for those reasons.
My frustration is no matter the method of application...it's a procedural process. Each steps effects the next step. And unfortunately with drywall it'll often involve the finisher having to come back and fix whatever needed.
Don't get mad at the next guy if it's your error and don't hold up a dollar for .10... Just get it did and move on.
I'm not selling anyone bullseye primer.
And I'm not to old to hear other ppls opinions or ask a question.
Thanks for the feed back!
 
#35 ·
2guns and a hammer said:
I subbed out the drywall hanging and finishing because I have other projects going on and was attempting to a hat trick. The homeowns are not happy because of all the seams are showing and there are nail pops everywhere
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Stop the job. The sub is the problem. any nail that popped is not considered a fastener in the code, period (same as if paper is blown though by screw head). It therefore does not meet screw pattern by code. Many drywall subs today attempt a ONE PASS finish with mud. Some even attempt to spray the seams run the tape and then spray the texture in one day. It is NOT POSSIBLE to do and have any quality to the product. Eventually even the tape will fail and screw coverage pop loose.

Tape mud is mixed thinner and used to draw the tape TIGHT to the wall as it dries. It requires two more coats over it. Read on:

My neighbor just retired from Union drywall job where he and his crew averaged about 10,000 square feet a day. this is what he taught me.
It takes 4 days to drywall normally. Sheetrock up day one.
Seams and first pass with 4-6 inch knife, corners, fill screws day 2.
Second pass with 8 inch knife, reset corners, 12 inch knife pass on smooth finish surfaces day 3.
12 inch knife and touch up any corners early morning, texture and knock down 100% last pass smooth surfaces. wet sand as necessary when set. Set up FANS then:

THREE DAYS LATER PAINT CAN BEGIN. Read the specification on all sheetrock and mud products and paints, 3 days cure of all mud products is REQUIRED before paint. I never allow paint on any of my jobs until the 3 day cure. This includes HOT MUD. Hot mud sets and hardens but stays wet and not cured until 3 days!

If you can feel the tape joint with your hand you will see it. If they tried to finish in one day then they skipped the processes, the mud should DRY between coats or there will be issues with the finish. Stop your job and reject the mud job in writing. Give the sub 24 hours to come up with a "recovery plan" in writing. You can use several terms but "does not meet manufacturer defined methods and work not performed to 'workman like standards'.

No way I would touch it until it is done properly, redoing mud work after paint causes bubbles to surface in the mud. makes it worse not better.
 
#36 ·
Level 3 doesn't get you a smooth ceiling.

Nail/screw pops are on the drywall guys.

If you want a smooth ceiling, specify level 5 or take your chances.

Ceiling gets whatever sheen your customer agreed to.
 
#37 ·
OK. That is very informative for sure. I especially like the way you worded the recovery plan ...workman like standards.
Here's the problem...Like I said this was a sub job and it was 5 rooms and 45 boards. The sub sent 2 different guys. The first spent a week in a daze and got everything hung and supposedly 2nd coated...Then ghosted to California.
So the sub sent a 2nd guy. This one 3rd coated and sanded. He tells me and the homeowners that everything is good to go.
I already expect some minor touch ups but I prime a first coat.
There literally are over 200 nail pops and all the seams are visible.
I contact the sub. He sends same guy. He recoats and sands. He tells me and homeowners again it's all good and ready to paint. It gets primed again. It still looks horrible. Wtf?
I read the comment about trying to mud over the paint. And I completely understand why another contractor wouldn't touch it.
But that's where I'm at with this...
Image

I already know I'm going to have to finish this out myself... here's my question:
The ceilings have been primed twice and there are seams and nail pops still showing. I think I can skim it and feather the edges to make it look good but I definitely question the integrity of the bond. Any suggestions??
 
#39 · (Edited)
If you used decent ceiling paint and AP mud, integrity isn't a question.

Those seams are humped, so they need coats on both sides, not down the seam. I'd assume it's going to be 3 coat with 8, 12, 16" knives for that

Nail / screw pops get screwed I
In tight with a hand screwdriver and 3 coated again.

It's just like finishing a new ceiling, except worse. Your DW guy should get bsckcharged.
 
#40 ·
The homeowners are extraordinarily forgiving people and are even willing to change the sheen to a flat if necessary.
It is what it is with the sub and that is being addressed.
The drywall itself is secure. Nothing is loose. The tape coats aren't showing bubbles or creases.
My best guess is that the first guy went with a heavy tape coat, sanded, and called it a 2nd coat. Idk? The third guys is just blind. And I'm a dumbass for subbing to flunkies.LOL
Lesson learned all the way around. What doesn't kill us..right.đź’Ş
Thanks for the feed back guys!
 
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