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Mounting 2x4 rails to 4x4 posts

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43K views 24 replies 13 participants last post by  Dirtywhiteboy  
C
#1 ·
I'm putting up a fence with 4x4 posts and 5/8" x 5-1/2" six foot dog-ear pickets. The look I want is for the outside face of the pickets to be even with the outside face of the posts. In other words, the pickets will fit in between the posts, so I will need to recess the 2x4 rails 5/8" back from the outside face of the posts with the 3-1/2" face of the 2x4 vertical. My question is how to best attach the 2x4s. I don't want to use brackets/hardware, I want to toe-screw the 2x4s to the posts. Do I put one screw in the top (the 1-1/2" side) and one in the bottom? Do I put 2 in each of the 3-1/2" sides? Or, would 2 screws in one 3-1/2" side be enough? I would prefer to put 2 screws in the outside 3-1/2" face so that the screws are covered by the pickets, but I'm not sure if that will be strong enough.

Thanks.
 
#5 ·
Ease off, guys. While this initially struck me as a DIY question, the OP informs me he's an interior remodeler, mostly custom cabinetry. As such, he wouldn't necessarily be all that well-informed about fences and whatnot. And being a cabinetry guy, he probably has a tendency to measure in 1/32nds or smaller. :LOL:

The posts are PT, the rails are PT. And they're outdoors. Build it with precision, and it may look good for a month or three. I'd avoid a toe-screw on top of the 2x4, as that would catch rainwater and be ugly as well. For the purtiest, I'd probably go with one toenail from the bottom (if there's clearance to do that) and another in the face being covered by the picket. Two screws are plenty.
 
C
#9 ·
The fence is for a friend. I'm trying to help him save a few bucks by helping him with it. As Tinstaafl said, I'm not an outside guy and work on the opposite end of the spectrum from fencing. Yes, I measure in 1/64th or better. Actually, having built race engines and worked on Ferrari cars in my early 20s, I had a hard time adjusting to such a "big" measurement when working on wood later in life.

The posts are in, set in concrete 42" deep (code) and within about a 1/4" of each other and plumb (man that would make a ****ty cabinet or piece of furniture). No wiggle, as hdavis suggested.

As far as Half-fast Eddie asked, my friend and his wife don't want to see all pickets, they like seeing the posts to break up the run. They liked a fence in the neighborhood that is made that way.

Lettusbee - I use a couple of different Kreg pocket hole jigs. I'm old school and prefer other means of joinery, but there are times when a pocket hole is adequate. I'll look for what you are talking about, but being I'd probably never use it again, not sure about the $ for it.

Seven-Delta-FortyOne - that was my initial thought, but I do think Tinstaafl's suggestion is a good alternative.

Thanks to those who took my question seriously. Appreciate the opinions.
 
J
#10 ·
i have used screws toenailed in similiar situations .my favorite counter sink ,these allow the deepest angle https://www.rockler.com/6-pro-tapered-countersink-bit.they have held up better then any others i have used .i use a size smaller then the screws .if you use a size 10 for 10 screws the head goes to deep .predrilling with these looks neater and you do not split out the ends of the boards .https://www.rockler.com/kreg-jig-hd-heavy-duty-pocket-hole-system .these are the large 1/4" screws .much stronger ,not saying you need it .
big one :-kreg blue ext screws eat away in treated and in redwood ,figure they are just not ext . you could go stainless . though in the 1/4" size you can get 1/4" ext construction screws .head generally is a little tight but they work .i also use them in longer lengths .generally 3" . I really do know if the kreg 1/4" screws are like the blue smaller ones and corode in treated and redwood .I like using them but sometimes i want a longer length
i think it will look great .break up the endless same old fence board .i see a lot of treated and redwood mixed and i like the look .
 
C
#14 ·
JFM constr said:
i have used screws toenailed in similiar situations .my favorite counter sink ,these allow the deepest angle https://www.rockler.com/6-pro-tapered-countersink-bit.they

I use similar counter sinks (Craftsman from back in the day when Sears was a decent place for some tools). Got a bunch of them in closeout for next to nothing. I like the looks of the Rockler one and need replacements soon. I guess in my head these are for finish work (my focus) so it didn't occur to me to use them on the fence.
Click to expand...
 
#11 ·
I was serious about the mortise and tenon, just not serious about the chain mortiser though I would like to get one someday.

But if you want to save money and have it look as good as possible and not worry about it for years then do the mortise and tenon.

It is really not that labor-intensive.

Andy.
 
C
#15 ·
Funny! I decided yesterday it was worth the time to make a jig! Being a cabinet guy, I use jigs often when I need accuracy and repeatability. It's worth the time to make one, saves time in the long run. Actually, I was going to make two so the rail can sit between two posts and then just get screwed in. Would make it easy for one person to install the rails (hint: my friend can do some of it without me!).
 
C
#19 ·
I like that idea. I think it would also look better on the inside of the fence. I'll suggest it to my friend (his fence). I know I don't like the look when the rails are on the outside of the posts. I'll somehow mock it up for him and his wife to consider.

We talked about some different looks. Money is an issue, so using just pickets was chosen (no trim boards at the top or bottom or any other components). This would be a way to give it a little style without raising the cost.

Thanks!
 
M
#20 ·
What do the posts look like?

I tend to avoid showing the posts because of the ugly incised pressure treated posts we have here.

Rails flush with the posts is my preference.

Fast, easy.

No rippers for every section between posts.

Larger Margin for error when cutting posts to finished height. (Normally 15* beveled, 4 sides)

Invisible gates if preferred.

Image



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
C
#22 ·
Posts are reasonably decent PT. My friend plans to stain it after it dries out in a few months.

Might sound crazy, but I have a lot of older, somewhat dull round over router bits. We took a few minutes to ease the corners of the posts with a 1/4" radius before we put them in. Nice to not have the sharp corners.

I like the look you are showing (really like the invisible gate) but my friend (probably his wife) doesn't want a long continuous run of pickets. I like your fast, easy approach. He has time, more than money, so whatever he wants to do I'll help him accomplish.

Looks like I'm starting a complete interior remodel of a home in January and begining to look like my wife and I will move into it when finished. As soon as the ground thaws (suburban Chicago) I'll do a fence. Don't look forward to it after helping with the current one, but my friend owes me one so at least I have a helper.

I appreciate all the ideas here. No doubt picking and choosing and I'll be able to come up with something nice and special when I do mine.
 
#21 ·
I would dato out pockets for the 2X4s I have made a jig that hangs from the top and clamps to the post for the router. Even a 1/4" to a 1/2" will make it very strong and with the screws you are very good to go. The first end goes in and the post & 2X4 will flex to get the other end in.
I also would do it the normal way and cover the post with the fence boards.
 
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