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Why does code note require gfci breakers on electric water heaters?

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#61 ·
Incorrect again. It will not trip because the current must first flow thru the element to get to ground. The element has a resistance of 12.8. Since a voltage of 120v is being applied to a resistive element of 12.8ohms, a current of 18.75 amps will flow and that is not more than the 30 amp breaker. But wait there's more.....................................

bwalley said:
When the circuit is closed it will trip the breaker, again because the 120v line has a direct path to ground.
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#62 ·
protechplumbing said:
You forget that I'm a local bud. If you really doubt these basic electrical concepts (ohms law) you aren't qualified to even comment on this thread.

There is no doubt in my mind that the breaker will NOT trip in that experiment. I am speaking from both an electrical theory stand point as well as 10 years of first hand experience servicing electric water heaters on an almost daily basis.

No one who has any experience/training servicing electric water heaters would debate what I just said. If you understood Ohm's law (the most basic electrical concept there is), you would not even need to waste your time with such an experiment. I'm not trying to insult you or make you feel dumb, it's just obvious to anyone who knows what's what that you are not schooled or vetted in this particular subject.

I'll just go ahead and answer my old hypothetical questions for tonight for the sake of educating anyone else who may be reading this thread.
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Do you want to come over to my house and try your theory and watch the breaker trip?

I live in Plant City which is very close to Lakeland where I think you are, I am between exit 19 and exit 17 off of I 4.

How much are you willing to bet?

Let me know and I will get you my address.
 
#63 ·
Since the voltage is not coming from the switched side of the upper thermostat, the element will now heat (At a lower output than normal) higher then the thermostats set point (the thermostat only switches one of the two poles) and when the upper tank reaches a temperature of 160F degrees the high limit thermo disk will trip and cut all voltage to all thermostats and elements until manually reset (which will not fix the problem).

Are we up to speed on things? If you don't understand the basics I can't make you understand the next level.
 
#64 ·
Sure, that could be arranged. I'll even bring the video cam so we can let every one watch on here. I'll wager $100 in cash.

PM me with the time and location and we can hook up and put this issue to rest.

bwalley said:
Do you want to come over to my house and try your theory and watch the breaker trip?

I live in Plant City which is very close to Lakeland where I think you are, I am between exit 19 and exit 17 off of I 4.

How much are you willing to bet?

Let me know and I will get you my address.
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#68 ·
This comment right here is what has Mr. Walley off a bit
Since a voltage of 120v is being applied to a resistive element of 12.8ohms
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He is treating it like one leg off the breaker directly....it's just a resistor. The element that is. I understand what he is saying, but he has the concept of the actual element wrong.
 
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#70 ·
protechplumbing said:
I'm sorry, but exactly when did I suggest that a GFCI was the correct course of action to rectify the dangerous lack of bonding present?

What was needed was a bonding conductor running from the heater jacket to the building's grounding conductor.

How did you get off on that wild tangent?
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No bud, no wild tangent. What was the topic/title of this thread again???

You are absolutely correct though and I was wrong. You did not suggest a GFI was the cure. I though that was being implied because of the topic.
My fault for assuming.
 
#71 ·
Who would have thought the day that 5 or 6 grown men have a discussion of facts.

That the arguement would be settled on you tube. This is incredible.

From now on if you want to prove someone wrong on CT, you need a you tube clip of the facts.

No more of this he said she said crap:laughing:
 
#73 ·
bob_cntrctr said:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/military.electrocutions/

"The report found that a water pump installed by military contractor KBR was not grounded, leading to Maseth's electrocution when it short-circuited. "

The water pump. Way back up the line from the water heater. Electrocuted through the shower.
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What KBR is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq has no bearing on this conversation. What is going on there is gross negligence and incompetence.

Who really knows what is happening there? Plumbing is being used for ground, but is mistakenly being heated up. Any Handyman99 can go to work for KBR an electrician, and when the hooking up the right colors becomes difficult, they only have to do what is easy, because no one can "prove" otherwise.

This thread has become a three pronged conversation:

(1) Is it a urban plumbing legend about someone getting shocked in the shower

(2) Is a hot water heater thermostat SPST or DPDT?

(3) Why isn't a GFCI required on a HWT? ( Answer, because it is redundant. It should be correctly grounded with a ground wire bundled with the conductors in conduit, NM, or MC, and ran all the way to the panel).
 
#74 ·
See responses in red below

Anti-wingnut said:
What KBR is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq has no bearing on this conversation. What is going on there is gross negligence and incompetence.

Who really knows what is happening there? Plumbing is being used for ground, but is mistakenly being heated up. Any Handyman99 can go to work for KBR an electrician, and when the hooking up the right colors becomes difficult, they only have to do what is easy, because no one can "prove" otherwise.

This thread has become a three pronged conversation:

(1) Is it a urban plumbing legend about someone getting shocked in the shower No, it isn't. I have personally seen it happen and found voltage at a shower faucet.

(2) Is a hot water heater thermostat SPST or DPDT? SPST

(3) Why isn't a GFCI required on a HWT? ( Answer, because it is redundant. It should be correctly grounded with a ground wire bundled with the conductors in conduit, NM, or MC, and ran all the way to the panel) Correct .
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#76 ·
To GFI or not to GFI

I would not be surprised in the least if GFCI protection would be required on electric water heaters in the future. They're required on Hot Tubs, which is nothing more than an open water heater. Your swimming pool equipment has to have it. Just wait & see
 
#79 ·
electricbygeorg said:
I would not be surprised in the least if GFCI protection would be required on electric water heaters in the future. They're required on Hot Tubs, which is nothing more than an open water heater. Your swimming pool equipment has to have it. Just wait & see
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I would be surprised.

The main difference between a water heater and the examples you stated concerns "immersion".
A person should never be immersed in a water heater.
 
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ChrWright
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