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Keep Ledger?

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#21 ·
My brain always thinks "what happens during lateral movement"? Especially when the wedding party of 75 want to get the wedding pictures out there on the end of the deck. A little sway and a lot of weight can spell disaster.

A deck never fails when the Mrs. Is sitting out there enjoying a spot of tea. It's always big parties. Watching 4th of July fireworks comes to mind.


Mike.
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[emoji631] [emoji631]
 
#22 ·
Calidecks said:
My brain always thinks "what happens during lateral movement"? Especially when the wedding party of 75 want to get the wedding pictures out there on the end of the deck. A little sway and a lot of weight can spell disaster.

A deck never fails when the Mrs. Is sitting out there enjoying a spot of tea. It's always big parties. Watching 4th of July fireworks comes to mind.


Mike.
_______________
[emoji631] [emoji631]
Click to expand...
My point exactly. Build it and they will come

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#23 ·
It's hard to convince a customer who has gotten 17 years out of a design to say that it is no longer any good.

The bottom line is you could have two old people or a couple that once in a blue moon go out on the deck however modern code say your building for a keg party.

I suppose as long as you bring concerns to the attention of the owner and the cost associated with them that you've done your due diligence. And as long as they sign off that they acknowledge the deficiency you can do what they're willing to pay for.

Beams can always be underpinned later. I would say that's about $3,500 worth of work to replace............
 
#26 ·
IMO there is way too much dead load let alone potential live load for the way this is constructed. Are those bolts expansion anchors simply mounted in brick veneer?
 
#30 · (Edited)
Still too high and too top heavy for the toothpicks holding it up and no sway bracing

And either double joist and header around the bay cantilever or go inside of it with deck joists. This is a real weak point among others.

I wouldn't touch this one without a total rebuild or double beaming
 
#31 · (Edited)
Just to point out the obvious, that construction style was standard for decades, except the ledger was bolted on, not nailed on. That's an upgrade for the time, and addresses the most common cause of deck failure- ledger pulling off. They're still built this way in some areas of Canada, according to one member's posts on an older thread.

It isn't current best practice, but that's different from being structurally unsound. The front suspension of your truck is held together with fasteners...
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
I've tried to rack it, didn't budge at all. But that's just 1 person. I felt ok about this as a resurface, it certainly is built better than most 15 year old decks I see. 2x12 "beams", 2x10 joists, carriages in W pattern, no rot visible on posts or digging down, no significant splitting in the 4x6 posts.

What makes me nervous:
- ledger w/o flashing
- 4x6 posts with sandwiched beams

So my original approach was to add flashing, add those retrofit brackets to the post-beam, add diagonal bracing, add (3) 18" threaded steel rods, and walk away comfortably. At the surface, my above 2 concerns would be solved by these items.

But you guys have made me nervous, with a probable good reason. Now I may consider replacing the beam and 4 posts, and adding a 2nd beam w/ posts.

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#33 ·
Irishslave said:
Still too high and too top heavy for the toothpicks holding it up and no sway bracing

And either double joist and header around the bay cantilever or go inside of it with deck joists. This is a real weak point among others.

I wouldn't touch this one without a total rebuild or double beaming
Click to expand...
4X4 column allowable load at roughly that height is 4900 lbs. You'd need 20 people standing over the beam to exceed allowable column design loads.
 
#37 ·
hdavis said:
4X4 column allowable load at roughly that height is 4900 lbs. You'd need 20 people standing over the beam to exceed allowable column design loads.
Click to expand...
I've seen them snap at 16' high with only 2 supporting.

I over build so I can sleep at night. If anyone was ever injured or killed due to my negligence I could eventually still sleep but maybe not in my own house
 
#38 ·
hdavis said:
4X4 column allowable load at roughly that height is 4900 lbs. You'd need 20 people standing over the beam to exceed allowable column design loads.
Click to expand...
That's bearing or point load not lateral or torsion.

This deck is basically held by the 8 bolts through the separated beam or girt Although I wouldn't call it that because it isn't. Once the bolts rust there is nothing holding the deck up
 
#40 ·
pathbuilder said:
This deck aside, is the age of the deck a black-and-white indicator to resurface or not? Many of my leads are "I have an existing deck, the frame is fine, just replacing boards". Is there an age of deck you would or wouldn't do? What if a 15 year old deck looks great, still no?

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Click to expand...
With some latitude, "yes". I've been asked to do re-skins many times and have only done it a few times on frames that were pretty new but the customer wanted a material change. I could actually make much more money on re-skins and/or re-rails.

In some cases the local BO may make it a non-issue by not allowing them unless the deck meets current code, which has about 0% chance of being the case. After that hurdle I will assess the current condition.

The main issue is that most decking and railing systems I would install have a potentially longer life span than the framing system on a new deck so I'm not going to put ipe or trex on a 10 year old frame that is halfway through it's functional life. This is a huge safety issue because people won't ever think their deck is unsafe if it LOOKS GOOD. PT or softwood decking is a different story.

Last issue, I'm not going to get a good product with a composite or pvc decking on wavy old joists and I'm not going to waste time and money trying to swap some of a frame out. I can just build a new one in the same amount of time.
 
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