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pathbuilder

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
As a GC, if you order and pay for the materials to be delivered to the job site, and the sub supplies the labor, and then the sub cuts in to or otherwise destroys expensive material..... at your company, who pays for that replacement....the sub or the GC?

Of course this should be put in writing in the GC-Sub contract prior to anything happening, but how do you have this written for your subs?
 
Someones insurance company?
 
Most materials are paid for by the Gc here. Framing package, trim package, siding and cornice, drywall decking for decks, tile, grout, woofd, uncoupling etc

In my experience you pay. If it happens much fire them
 
I believe it is safe to say it is comes down to the person who is supplying the materials. I think if they destroy other materials not related to their job they should be liable to a degree. I tell you one thing, when someone else is supplying materials others don't care.

I remember when I was doing some subcontracting for one builder last year. My waste for trim and flooring was minimal to the others who were doing the same job. Even the one other guy I brought to work for me has almost the same amount of floor left over as I did. I would watch others and they would go through 10% and then still needed some more. Some would open up 2 boxes and cut them all for starters and use only half. Some wouldn't use the remainder piece of floor if it was decent size as a starter etx.
 
Not sure if this is directly on point but

More expensive materials are more expensive to install for a reason. Mistakes and waste can happen at any level. It costs more if you make a boo-boo on pricier stuff.

I see builders who normally use builder grade material and builder grade subs, try to move into custom level builds while still using builder grade subs. It's usually not a great result. That one's on the builder/GC who should know better.

If a sub f's up some material that is out of their normal wheelhouse, maybe the sub shouldn't be messing with that material in the first place? Who put them in that position? The GC/builder thinking, "eh, you'll be fine with that," or the sub claiming capability beyond what they really have? There is a difference there.

Negligence and damage due to carelessness is another story.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
if they used less drywall would they be paid more?
There's an interesting approach. If GC pays for materials and then a sub makes bad cuts, GC pays for more material. On the flip side, if a sub does his job well and doesn't make bad cuts whereas the GC doesn't need to buy additional material than needed, then give a bonus to the sub.

So no penalty if you make bad cuts, but if you don't make bad cuts then you get a small bonus.
 
There's an interesting approach. If GC pays for materials and then a sub makes bad cuts, GC pays for more material. On the flip side, if a sub does his job well and doesn't make bad cuts whereas the GC doesn't need to buy additional material than needed, then give a bonus to the sub.

So no penalty if you make bad cuts, but if you don't make bad cuts then you get a small bonus.
In other words, have the sub buy their own material and be responsible for it. If they don't eff it up, they make more money. If they eff it up, they make less.
 
A sub is an extension of your operation and are using the materials you provided... if you have concerns about handing off decision making regarding material yield to a sub, it'd be no different than an employee... better have the discussion before the cutting begins...

Ultimately it lands in the GC's lap being the one managing the project...
 
The responsibility to the client ultimately lands on the GC, but that does not mean that you are liable for the cost. The sub is responsible to replace any damaged materials. It doesn’t matter who paid for the materials, the sub is hired to complete a job based at a certain price. If you own the materials and they damaged it, that is the exact same situation as someone damaging your property. Regardless of what the contract says, this is common law.

The proper way to amend the contract is to write a backcharge to your sub and then send them a deductive change order to the contract for the amount of the material cost plus any delays. This is the legal way to reduce the payment owed to them. If you are withholding 10% retention and the material is less than the 10% then you can take the cost out of it. If they disagree for any reason then they will need to take you to court. Hopefully, your contract has a clause stating that disagreements go to mediation or arbitration prior to court.
- Since you’re making the payments to the sub, you should always have the upper hand in regards to any sub damages occurring on the project; withhold payment to force action.

I can think of three reasons why a GC would agree to purchase the materials for a sub. At times this is worthwhile.

#1 to save money. Since subs put a % markup on materials bought, it’s beneficial for the GC to make the purchase at times.

#2 to accommodate the sub. Some subs are smaller outfits and cannot outlay the cash for certain items. The GC can then cover the cost without having the sub bill prior to purchase.

#3 the sub hasn’t been hired yet but the material is a long lead item and will need to be ordered prior to the sub being issued a contract. Maybe the GC is reviewing several proposals from a few different sub companies, but needs to place the order now. (NEVER order a custom “long lead” item without having it signed off by the owner)

The purchase of certain materials will increase the GCs risk and exposure. For example, a custom order item (typically non-returnable). If there is a change in plan and the GC has already ordered the item for the sub (custom orders are sometimes long lead), this exposure lands in the GCs lap. (Unless the Owner signed off on the purchase of the custom ordered long lead item)
-Also, warranty issues will fall under the GCs responsibility if deemed a faulty material. There are defect laws to assist with liability, but it’s still a lot of work narrowing down the causes...did the sub damage it, install it incorrectly, or is the material faulty?

Hope this helps
 
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There is a thing that called "Back-Charges" if it's inforced they will measure twice and cut once.

First of all, you don't hire an incompetent sub-contractor...Second of all you deal with professionals, you hire them under the agreement to perform the following and they have insurance if they screw up...Period.

We not talking about here an HO goes on Craig's list and hires "fly-by-night" trade and they screw up...That is the HO problem, they should have known better when a guy shows up and works out of the trunk of his car.
Here you have a professional company who perform certain trade and you expect the job to be done as agreed, you provide the material and they install it.

Let's take a framer... I always provide lumber, if his crew pre-cuts all the headers the wrong size and none of the doors or windows fit...He better hurry and get some 2x to make new headers.
I always provide trim, if they pre-cut all the base molding the or crown or whatever the wrong size... the same thing if you screw up and I have to get a new crown, you will know where that be coming out of.

That said if a guy makes a mistake and screws up a piece of this or that it happens, no big deal I wouldn't even question that, but if an A-hole kills a few hundred dollars in material, let's say if you subbed out a kitchen install and he kills an expensive piece of crown...some crown moldings can run about $200+ a piece, if he thinks this be coming out of my pocket, he got another thing coming.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
I'm thinking along the same lines. Nobody's perfect, chit happens, a bad cut here and there you better not jump down the guy's throat. I'll pay for bad cuts up to a certain dollar amount, after that it's on them.

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I'm thinking along the same lines. Nobody's perfect, chit happens, a bad cut here and there you better not jump down the guy's throat. I'll pay for bad cuts up to a certain dollar amount, after that it's on them.

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Yes, there is always an acceptable amount for someone to make a minor mistake... BUT there is no room for sub-par workmanship, negligence or disregard for materials that someone been hired and entrusted to install.
 
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