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Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane, (house wrap.)

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29K views 74 replies 14 participants last post by  Dirtywhiteboy  
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#1 ·
I am not sure what topic this subject belongs, but I think it deserves it's own topic, as I think the building envelope is evolving and people want to pay for it.

Today I started to work with Henry, Blueskin® VP100
Self-Adhered Water Resistive Air Barrier Membrane. It's a house wrap.

Working with an adhesive backed house wrap has a huge learning curve. For those who hate ice and water shield, run away from adhesive-backed house wraps.

I understand the benefits of the product, which have strict install instructions.

What did I learn my first day working with the product? It's like a cloth, it stretches like a bed sheet. This is very apparent when you remove the film from the adhesive back. The film doesn't remove evenly and such the material doesn't stretch evenly, which equates to wrinkles and give rise for the opportunity for the adhesive to stick to its self.

I did get really good at eliminating stretching and the wrinkles by using a plastic dustpan. To stop the stretching, I used the dust pan to follow the path of the film while I removed it, I applied pressure like every 5 inches, this tacked the house warp, and eliminated the exponential stretching from feet to inches.

We have a 26000 foot home to wrap, I think we did about 100 sf today, I am praying I get over the learning curve.
 
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#6 ·
I hope you did not spec./ select the product. After reading a post in another thread of problems surfacing with zip wall / roofing,who wants to be the guinea pig ?
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When Dupont was developing their thermawrap. WE were [STRIKE]guinea pigs[/STRIKE] I mean a collaborative commercial entity.

Dupont took on all the risk.

Have done the same in years past with Dow and also with Gougeon Brothers (West System Epoxies).

But I can't imagine what it would be like for a small outfit learning to have stuff like this.

Maybe what we need are shrink-to-fit giant house condoms. Sure seems the be the direction this industry is headed.
 
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#13 · (Edited)
Framers typically turn the sheathing into swiss cheese. The nails penetrate too deep and they use more nails than are needed. All the benefits of zip sheathing are lost, unless you tape the entire home every 16 inches.

Give a framer something like tyvek , and the staple hammer becomes a toy, where i swear they are trying to make as many holes as they can.

People just don't understand why the industry are creating these products. In zip sheathing it very important that the head of the nail is seated like a drywall screw, or like driving a roofing nail into a shingle.

Its crap because it forces the carpenter to be more thoughtful, it slows down the framing process.

The industry is introducing words like, thermal bridging, to the masses. Where every nail, in the sheathing does have an impact.

It should not be the framers responsibility to deal with the envelope, which is what zip sheathing is doing. If there is a failure, you are taking your framer to court?
 
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#16 ·
Stilla said:
Framers typically turn the sheathing into swiss cheese. The nails penetrate too deep and they use more nails than are needed. All the benefits of zip sheathing are lost, unless you tape the entire home every 16 inches.
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If the monkeys with the machine guns (framers) are over driving fasteners,someone needs to call them out on that and hold their feet to the fire. It reduces panel strength and is a code violation. Not cover the sins with tape,house wrap or fly paper for that matter. If that is going on,where is the supervision,asleep at the wheel ?

To build a 26,000 sq.ft. plywood palace and have that go on is unconscionable. They should tie a can on the super and run him off the job site.
 
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#23 ·
My phone died, sorry I didn't get back sooner.

So I have been working with the material for 7 days. It is labor intensive, and if the products warranty, is going to be honored, I have to follow strict rules. Meaning a flawless install.

We struggled the first 2 days as we were hanging the product horizontally, as it was required as we were being chased by an exterior trim crew. To hang the material horizontally requires 2 guys. The trim crew blew by us, and they were forced to install the product, just so they could do there job.

The trim crew cared nothing about how it was applied, our crew will have to deal with how it's installed. The pace of the job forces people to work on top of each other, it's something I am acclimated to. I am a finish carpenter, applying house wrap.

The rolls of the material come in 4x100 foot rolls and cost 240 bucks a roll. An interior finish crew of 3 are applying the wrap. Let that sink in. We are applying the wrap because of the warranty. It needs to be perfect.

Installing the product horizontally was killing us. The site super, asked us if we felt if we were to hang the material vertically, could it be done more efficiently?

We gave it a shot, and I will say it was a huge help. The task of hanging the material became a 1 man job, and it was easy to install.

Allowing gravity to do it's job is a tremendous help.

I'll have some pictures of how we learned to install this wrap.

I hope this info helps everyone.
 
#27 ·
Stilla said:
We are applying the wrap because of the warranty. It needs to be perfect.

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Yet your boss the GC is letting the other guys put on the house wrap??? How can that be if you are the ONLY one that can do it perfect. I can hang siding paper all day long perfect yet I'd never call myself a finish carpenter when carpenter works so much better. I have guns that shoot from 23ga. to 16d nails.
 
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#25 ·
What kine of siding is going on the house.:blink:
I know I install a lot of LP Smart siding. If water gets in back of the siding we have done things very wrong!!
 

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#38 ·
You laugh at of what you don't know. The old Japanese carpenter that built this island really knew what they were doing!! The siding on the home I live in is the siding on the outside and the interior wall on inside. The wall is ¾" thick. No water comes through the wall!!!!!
We don't use the thin plastic garbage that blows down the road when a storm hits.
Here's a nice read..

Single Wall Construction

Many of the older homes in Hawaii were constructed with only a single exterior wall, which is often referred to as single wall construction. The original purpose of single wall construction was to save on costs because most building material has to be shipped in from the mainland. Single wall construction is possible in Hawaii primarily because there is no need to insulate against the cold. Many of these single wall homes have louvered windows to throttle the cooling effect of the trade winds. Since the wood used in single wall construction is exposed to the elements, redwood or cedar are preferred for their termite and dryrot resistance. In the 1980's, the price of redwood and cedar increased, offsetting the cost advantages single wall construction once held. Since double wall construction requires slightly less skill, single wall homes became less common. An irony about single wall construction is that they have less bugs, don't need air conditioning, and are cheaper in the long run. Single wall homes typically have no fiberglass insulation and often do not have any drywall, both of which are some of the less earth friendly of all building materials.

Where am I going with this? Off on a tangent of course.

I'd like to think we as humans have the option to build our exterior with single or double construction. It's easier and far more common to go double-wall, first framing our boundaries, then attaching osb, a moisture barrier, and an exterior siding. At that point we go about our business of insulating, drywalling, taping, painting, and installing floors and baseboard. When we are done, we feel strong and protected, and we can open our front door to any of our friends who ring the doorbell or text us that they are stopping by to visit.

By contrast, the single wall human takes a bit more thought and work. Any gaps will be very noticeable, so the joints between boards and all of the angles which are exposed should maintain tight tolerances. Electrical wires have to be concealed behind casing, and plumbing routed entirely under the floor. A lot less material is used, but more time and care must go into the process of building, a process of delayed gratification.

As a child, I never appreciated single wall construction. I thumbed my nose at any homes that looked so "cheap". I erroneously assumed that drywall was "right". I did not fully appreciate the simple beauty that was all around me, single wall homes just seemed like a construction project waiting for funding.

But I do remember how it felt to be inside one of those homes. How connected to the island you feel when the tradewinds sing through, and how much you hear through the openness of the walls. In many ways, this feeling, the single wall feeling, describes what I feel in yoga, of connecting myself to the outside, while remaining indoors.

The privileges of a childhood in paradise are numerous because of all the uniqueness which simply cannot survive elsewhere. Unique species, unique construction methods, unique family units, and unique and breathtaking views of natural wonder. And yet, while the specifics of Hawaii's uniqueness cannot be directly experienced on the mainland, the conceptual approach to openness and connection is an option for everyone no matter where they are. We can always extend ourselves to others in various ways without giving up much of anything from ourselves. We can always get by with less, less stuff, less food, less time, less praise. We can always feel more connected to the world, by removing barriers between ourselves and that which we seek to be closer to.

One of my favorite memories of home, of being in a place I will always call home, is running past a single wall house, as the afternoon showers rinse my skin, and feeling an intense connection to the life flowing all around me.
Posted by The Suffer Seeker at 2:40 PM
http://daveeasa.blogspot.com/2011/11/single-wall-construction.html
 
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#37 · (Edited)
All siding leaks. I build very tight building envelopes and will not not do a rain screen ever. Siding is a cladding that protects the drainage plane and while yes, it does repel the majority of water it always leaks somewhere.
In regards to cedar, I'm assuming red cedar. Putting it on a rain screen will prolong its life exponentially and it will hold paint/stain better. It just a good building practice.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Let me repeat myself " If water is getting in back of MY siding I have done something very wrong":thumbsup:
You'd look around with a confused look on your face if you ever came out here:blink:
That being said we do now install full paper, flashing tape, Tyvek , Tyvek tape & all. But yea when we are done with the siding it being hardie or LP smart side or ply T-1-11 it's water tight.
On the old homes:;: Oh but the high end homes had 1¼"X13½" red wood heart wood walls.
The ¾" thick walls hold up the roof:clap:
And the use of Canec (pronounced CANE-ick) is a building material that was used in the 1930s to the 1960s on Oahu would really get your eyes:rolleyes:
 
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#50 ·
I have attempted to post images to this post, even corrected the images with an app, but that doesn't work. Every image is perpendicular, sorry.

I have worked with blue skin for some time now.

It's been about 2 weeks, and we, (1 who has over 30 years experience,) have not even completely finished the first floor. The labor is almost 4 times that of Tyvek. It's like wrapping Christmas presents with an adhesive backed wrap.

Some people are really good at wrapping presents, some are not.

After some time I came to the realization, that the material isn't strait. You can revive material that has a pretty hefty crown. Over 10 feet, I have seen a crown of 2 inches. That's a problem for the lap joint.

You have to correct for the Manufacturing faults befour you stick this stuff, meaning don't peel the film, untill you know exactly how it is hanging.

Like I said hanging it vertically is less work.
 

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#60 ·
The same "gotcha" was my deciding factor with ZIP/Advantech. DO NOT USE. Stray one iota from specified matrials - asdhesives, laps, fastner schedule/depth - and they say buh bye to the warranty.

40 years ago, my buddy had to pay 4K out of pocket to a 3rd contractor because the shingles we put on - specced to use staples -some of the staples were not true to parallel to the run by 5 degrees.
And so the circuit court found him liable for the whole roof.

Even though a year later a class action suit against the shingle make bankrupted them.

All warranties are bull ****.
 
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#61 · (Edited)
I am unaware of faults in Advantech. We just use the t&g sub floor product. I will start to Google the subject, but if you could. I would appreciate some key words.

After the framers are done building the home, and the roof and wrap is on, the home is allowed to acclimate, without a heating or cooling schedule. We screw the crap out of the floor. So much so that the glue is a non factor.
 
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#64 · (Edited)
7

I am not happy with how we are doing the sills. We will end up with a reversed lap. The manufacturer just wants the blue skin to wrap the jack studs. No wrap on the sills or header. The head is not wrapped, so if water got behind the wrap it wouldn't be trapped. The sills are done with flashing tape, like old school flashing tape. It's nothing like flex wrap, which is what I would prefer.

The instructions and the blue skin representative. Both claim a reversed lap is ok inside the the windows. The decision to do so was the site manager.

In the end the window nailing flange is caulked to the wrap on the sides and top, but not the bottom. Fashing tape is applied on top and sides, but not the bottom of the nailing flange. So if water is getting behind the window, that reversed lap is minor in terms of what the problem is.
 
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#67 ·
"The instructions and the blue skin representative. Both claim a reversed lap is ok inside the the windows. The decision to do so was the site manager."

There's a recipe for a disaster, violates the advice a wise old roofer (I know, sounds like an oxymoron) told me many years back, 'think like a rain drop'.
 
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#69 ·
It took my employers crew of 3, 4 weeks to apply the peel and stick house wrap. After the first week we became more proficient with the install.

We got over the learning curve.

I like the product.

19 rolls of wrap at 230 bucks a roll plus 3 guys making over 600 a week.

My estimated cost is $13, 970, round about.
 
#70 ·
If a man is netting 600$ a week the employer is paying out at least 900$ a week depending on the benefits package.
Hard to believe a carpenter can live on that , I can't seem to live on netting double that. cost of living must be a lot less there.
 
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