Hello. I am framing up an 8x8 outdoor bathroom for a customer. The recently poured slab is only 4 inches thick. My question is this: is that enough support for a brick veneer? I really don't think so myself, but I have zero experience with brick veneer walls. Also, is osb and tyvek suitable for behind the brick?
Slickwilly
Where are you located? And how high is the brick Veneer going?
Here in the Midwest you need to have a foundation that is at least below the frost line. If you are in a location that is not subject to freezing and you're not going that high with the brickwork (couple feet or less) it might be OK.
A lot of variables in your question and you need to follow local regulations and construction practices
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Here in the Midwest you need to have a foundation that is at least below the frost line. If you are in a location that is not subject to freezing and you're not going that high with the brickwork (couple feet or less) it might be OK.
A lot of variables in your question and you need to follow local regulations and construction practices
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Here ANYTHING with a sewer pipe REQUIRES a frost footing for long term survival of the connections on the Sewer piping....
How are you insulating the Banjo? It won't improve your rep. if they have blow all the water lines during each sub freezing moment...
Use of brick dura-wall in every course would reduce the numbers of pieces the crapper falls apart into, but would actually increase the demo costs when the structure was rebuilt to code with the funds the home owner gets from suing an obviously incompetent builder...
One could use 8" bed 4"high "buffalo brick" that could be grouted & rebarred every 4' in ALL directions or regular rock face CMUs....
Please post the H owners response the pouring of an useless chuck of Concrete...
Cheapest quality fix, is to trench around the 8 x 8 SOG and make the kybo 9.33' x 9.33' out side to outside wall dimension.....room for a shower and a pissoir.
Even climes with out frost need structural support and Rat barriers....I suggest a serious number of hours a week learning your trade before you "kill" anymore patients with your profound ignorance. A "rabbi" or mentor could save you hundreds of thousands in losses from Omissions and Errors, if consulted before acting....
How are you insulating the Banjo? It won't improve your rep. if they have blow all the water lines during each sub freezing moment...
Use of brick dura-wall in every course would reduce the numbers of pieces the crapper falls apart into, but would actually increase the demo costs when the structure was rebuilt to code with the funds the home owner gets from suing an obviously incompetent builder...
One could use 8" bed 4"high "buffalo brick" that could be grouted & rebarred every 4' in ALL directions or regular rock face CMUs....
Please post the H owners response the pouring of an useless chuck of Concrete...
Cheapest quality fix, is to trench around the 8 x 8 SOG and make the kybo 9.33' x 9.33' out side to outside wall dimension.....room for a shower and a pissoir.
Even climes with out frost need structural support and Rat barriers....I suggest a serious number of hours a week learning your trade before you "kill" anymore patients with your profound ignorance. A "rabbi" or mentor could save you hundreds of thousands in losses from Omissions and Errors, if consulted before acting....
If the SOG was built with steel rebar/mesh one could possibly drag it aside, install the the needed grade beams,a drag/roller the SOG back into position.......
Or install sound 4x4" sill plates as needed(extra 3/8" or 7/16ths" LDSs or expansion anchors) for exterior walls, leaving the door opening UNCUT, jack up the ~3000 pound slab and underpin it with a footing/grade beam, return to original grade.:jester:
Its 200.00$ of crete, say goodbye.:thumbsup:
Or install sound 4x4" sill plates as needed(extra 3/8" or 7/16ths" LDSs or expansion anchors) for exterior walls, leaving the door opening UNCUT, jack up the ~3000 pound slab and underpin it with a footing/grade beam, return to original grade.:jester:
Its 200.00$ of crete, say goodbye.:thumbsup:
It's just an 8×8 stand alone bathroom. I already told her just to put a 1/2" thick brick veneer on it. Her brick guy said it would be ok putting 4" brick on it, but some guys can be wrong. A lot. Never worked with brick. I'm not a mason. Recently moved to Texas from the Canadian border. I've done hundreds of foundations, built hundreds of houses. I've even built convenience stores, office building, and apartment buildings nearly by myself. I can tell I know more than fourth generation of beer man from his comments above.
Lots of places in Texas you're going to have slab cracking. I've seen wood additions done similar to what you're dealing with, and the slab cracked and the structure moved a lot once that happened. Wood moving isn't as bad as brick moving, but it's still plenty bad.
I wouldn't do it, even though a tail light warrantee would be doable. The second issue is permitting and inspections - depends on your AHJ.
I wouldn't do it, even though a tail light warrantee would be doable. The second issue is permitting and inspections - depends on your AHJ.
Part of the issue is this type of addition (building on a patio type slab) is done all the time, and the HO probably knows someone who knows someone who will do it and take the money.
Of course the mason contractor said you can do it because you can. I would do the job as well however my guarantee is for the quality of my workmanship I cannot guarantee that the slab will not crack thus causing major cracking with my brickwork.
I don't know if this is common construction practices in Texas to only have 4" of concrete to support the structure
Your mason could be right but I would consult with someone who will assure you that it is proper
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I don't know if this is common construction practices in Texas to only have 4" of concrete to support the structure
Your mason could be right but I would consult with someone who will assure you that it is proper
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Do you have expansive clay there?
Have you figured out what is needed for permitting?
I can do a 200sqft non-habitable space accessory structure here without permits, but to hook anything into the water / sewer system / electrical, I need permits.
Have you figured out what is needed for permitting?
I can do a 200sqft non-habitable space accessory structure here without permits, but to hook anything into the water / sewer system / electrical, I need permits.
While waiting for the Beer truck I'll throw out one more solution for Not so slick Billy, lay down a 4" x 4" x 3/8" galvanized angle iron on the SOG, weld the corners together....
Or pour an ABOVE grade beam on the SOG, use brick pans on the exterior, paint/ tint to match real brick above..
one more freebie for the sexual intellectual, use sleeves on ALL the penetrations to reduce call backs, and don't forget the freeze drained water valves.
Grow a pair and tell the customer the SOG isn't what they need for a bathroom. IMHO
Or pour an ABOVE grade beam on the SOG, use brick pans on the exterior, paint/ tint to match real brick above..
one more freebie for the sexual intellectual, use sleeves on ALL the penetrations to reduce call backs, and don't forget the freeze drained water valves.
Grow a pair and tell the customer the SOG isn't what they need for a bathroom. IMHO
I know every situation is different, but I walked from a job like this one last year.
HO wanted to close in his open car porch, build a frame wall and brick veneer.
The issue I had was the slab was only 4" and was cracked all the way cross both ways.
I suggested that he let me saw around the slab, dig and pour a footing. He said he didn't want to spend that much money.
If I laid the brick, the cracks in the floor would run right up my wall. He said it didn't matter to him...I told him it mattered to me!
HO wanted to close in his open car porch, build a frame wall and brick veneer.
The issue I had was the slab was only 4" and was cracked all the way cross both ways.
I suggested that he let me saw around the slab, dig and pour a footing. He said he didn't want to spend that much money.
If I laid the brick, the cracks in the floor would run right up my wall. He said it didn't matter to him...I told him it mattered to me!
Sorry I hurt your self esteem "SlickWilly" But I seem to recall YOU came HERE for a solution to YOUR problem.....
Sometimes it is just cheaper to tear out the existing infrastructure, which must of been learned? over the course of "building 100s of buildings and foundations"
You started the ball rolling selecting the name "Slick Willy" which appears to a reverse style nickname, thus not so smooth operator/contractor?
Attacking those who offer constructive criticism and solutions with a little humor will soon leave you with very few people giving you accurate feedback on your work products.:sad:
Insult me all you want, please don't involve my wife.
Sometimes it is just cheaper to tear out the existing infrastructure, which must of been learned? over the course of "building 100s of buildings and foundations"
You started the ball rolling selecting the name "Slick Willy" which appears to a reverse style nickname, thus not so smooth operator/contractor?
Attacking those who offer constructive criticism and solutions with a little humor will soon leave you with very few people giving you accurate feedback on your work products.:sad:
Insult me all you want, please don't involve my wife.
SW: I work full time and post during the off days and nights to share what little I've learned.
All that S*****y contracting or lots of free time? I am confused, I have NEVER had a wall fall over.... And I NEVER considered building one that WILL fail.
For every post I make, I read 10-20 Posts on this site or others, heck I even read books about building, some even explain WHY with the HOW....
Some people ride in the wagon of Human knowledge, never adding anything or teaching anyone else, others, pull the Wagon and or add to its contents, enjoy your ride SW
I can recommend some remedial reading and writing books and exercises if you like to raise your value to society?
With out any doubts, You are/have a much larger "Tool" then my 'Pinhead' is. IMHO
Even the Village Idiot knows things I don't. Keep Posting Slick. :jester:
All that S*****y contracting or lots of free time? I am confused, I have NEVER had a wall fall over.... And I NEVER considered building one that WILL fail.
For every post I make, I read 10-20 Posts on this site or others, heck I even read books about building, some even explain WHY with the HOW....
Some people ride in the wagon of Human knowledge, never adding anything or teaching anyone else, others, pull the Wagon and or add to its contents, enjoy your ride SW
I can recommend some remedial reading and writing books and exercises if you like to raise your value to society?
With out any doubts, You are/have a much larger "Tool" then my 'Pinhead' is. IMHO
Even the Village Idiot knows things I don't. Keep Posting Slick. :jester:
An exterior bathroom is considered an accessory structure and is living space according to
"most" Planning departments that I have dealt with.
If there is a Planning department that you have to deal with then the structure will have to comply with the local Building code for your area. Now I may be wrong but I think the entire state of Texas is required to conform to the 2009 code. If so then footings for an accessory structure are mandated.
But then, maybe your situation is different and you don't need to actually comply with a given code. If so, then I would recommend to anyone building in such circumstances to at the very least, comply with the latest IRC. And that would mean Anchor Bolts, slab top min. 6" from surrounding grade, braced panels, etc. All of which would require footings.
If it was just a porch cover of some type then you could get away with no footings depending on the weight of the cover but that is not your situation.
Andy.
"most" Planning departments that I have dealt with.
If there is a Planning department that you have to deal with then the structure will have to comply with the local Building code for your area. Now I may be wrong but I think the entire state of Texas is required to conform to the 2009 code. If so then footings for an accessory structure are mandated.
But then, maybe your situation is different and you don't need to actually comply with a given code. If so, then I would recommend to anyone building in such circumstances to at the very least, comply with the latest IRC. And that would mean Anchor Bolts, slab top min. 6" from surrounding grade, braced panels, etc. All of which would require footings.
If it was just a porch cover of some type then you could get away with no footings depending on the weight of the cover but that is not your situation.
Andy.
They are under county jurisdiction. I mentioned a couple codes to her and she cut me off saying " oh we're county out here. We really don't care about codes." The building Will be just fine. The slab has rebar and is one of the hardest slabs I've ever drilled thru and that's no joke. Obviously she can't put 4" brick on because that's too much weight. But any other type of siding is fine and the slab Will be just fine. Sure it might crack if rain starts eroding it from underneath or the ground settles for some reason. My old man's shop floor was poured about 12 years ago and it's just a slab on grade with close to 12" thickened edge and there still isn't a single crack in it. And that's in north Dakota. I don't use a lot of IRC codes because most of it is overkill. I use some, but not all of it. I also go by my own experience, as well as two generations of experience before me. I've never had an unhappy customer in my 10+ years of running my own business. And I'm not joking either. My father and grandpa haven't had any durability issues either in 50+ years they've been doing this.
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